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For someone with an intermediate to advanced skill level with Russian (for the purposes of this, let's say someone who understands 80-90% of Russian news broadcasts without watching/using the visual aids on screen that provide context clues), would it be easier to learn Ukrainian or Belarusian and reach the same skill level?
i'd say absolutely, although i can't attest for this from my own experience cause i've been exposed to both Russian and Ukrainian in parallel
i'm not speaking about the skill level, but knowing English quite helped me in learning German, which differ far more than these three languages
Sorry, I wasn't quite clear. I meant to ask whether it would be easier for a person who natively speaks English, but knows Russian, to learn Ukrainian, or would it be easier for him to learn Belarusian? I'm trying to decide which one to start with.Quote:
Originally Posted by LXNDR
In short term I think Belarusian will provide more problems because of its very specific spelling which is very phonetic but very different from Russian and Ukrainian spelling. In long term you will find that Belarusian has less available materials and speakers than Ukrainian.
Though in my feeling Belarusian is a bit closer to Russian than Ukrainian.
if so, echoing what it-ogo said in my opinion Belarusian is a tad closer to Russian lexically but Ukrainian is closer sonicallyQuote:
Originally Posted by zxc
i'd start with Ukrainian, cause if you plan to continue on to Belarusian after that, knowing Ukrainian will help you tremendously on the lexical front
Belarusian is somewhere in the middle between the two other languages (totally subjective), so knowing the extremes you'll be able to crossbreed them
Certainly, Belorussian is much easier than Ukrainian for those who speaks Russian.
Both these languages are just very confusing for anyone trying to learn Russian.
Different but with many similiarities. Russian is hard enough without this extra complication, I think!
The whole point of learning Russian, is that it is such a big language, and gives you access to so many different countries - so why distract yourself with Ukrainian or Belarussian when everyone in those countries speak Russian already?
Unless you are interested in the languages for a linguistic or cultural or family reasons of course, that would be a different story.
ok for Belarusians, but can all Ukranians speak Russian? really?! Are you sure of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
No, not allQuote:
Originally Posted by klopp
But decent amount of Ukrainians speak Russian
The Eastern and Southern Ukraine are mostly Russian-speaking. Although Ukrainian is official throughout the country, and many street signs are in Ukrainian, the people use Russian there in their daily conversations. I visited Donetsk region, Kharkiv, Crimea, Odessa and Kiev. All those places are mainly Russian-speaking. Even in the streets of Kiev I was surprised to hear Russian speech more frequently than Ukrainian speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by klopp
As far as I know, the majority of Ukrainian-speaking population are in Western reqions of Ukraine. Lviv is the well-know example.
I hardly believe there are some Ukrainians who do not speak any Russian at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomer
Well, maybe there are very few of them in Ukrainian-speaking parts, mostly younger generation who got their education after the USSR dissolution. But I am not sure.
Western part of Ukraine doesn't speak Russian. Even if some people there might understand Russian they will not speak it. That's what essentially mattersQuote:
Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман
There are Ukrainians here in Chicago who don't speak Russian but only Ukrainian and English (well, maybe Polish too), the cities you mentioned are all from the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine (except maybe Kiev, which is half Russian)
As Doomer perfectly explained, a lot of Ukrainians are able to speak normal Russian. But in some parts (Western Ukr) thanks to the russophobic propaganda some are embarrassed to speak it (while they actually CAN) as well as there are some that are embarrassed to speak pure Ukrainian... so they begin to "russify" Ukrainian words which is called "surzhik" (Brainwashing effects).
But if you as a tourist visit even western parts of Ukraine and speak Russian, Most of them will understand you. They have a lot of visitors/tourists and in order to not lose them, they usually hide their a bit "nationalistic" sentiments. I mean if you are a foreigner, that's ok. National tensions exist only between Ukrainian citizens themselves. It has no connection with tourists. Also they are hospitable.
OMG. How did you come to that?Quote:
Originally Posted by MISSFOXYSWEETCHERRY
In Ukraine de-facto works an ethical norm that everybody speaks the language he likes more and gets respond in a language interlocutor likes more. For locals it is not a problem to understand any of them. But if a person with a "far" foreign accent speaks Russian (s)he most probably will be responded in Russian even if interlocutor likes Ukrainian more.
Situation when someone speaks Ukrainian instead of Russian just to make you problems is extreme and rare.
"Surzhik" in fact is a great number of quite different local dialects which are used mainly in rural areas. Plus sometimes a person from an area with mixed language practice can mix words and constructions from languages.
All of the above is quite natural and mostly has nothing to do with "embarrassing" or "brainwashing" of any kind.
Well - From the perspective of a foreigner:Quote:
Originally Posted by klopp
I was there and there certainly wasn't anyone who wasn't able to understand my (bad!) Russian. Everyone was 100% up for speaking Russian with me.
Rather, it was me who was totally confused by the signs and writing in Ukrainian.
Admittedly I didn't go to the countryside, I only visited Odessa and Kiev. But I hardly even HEARD anyone speaking Ukrainian, apart from on TV.
However - almost all official signs etc, are in Ukrainian, particularly in Kiev. So for that reason it's not a brilliant place to go to learn Russian. But as for actual interaction between people, it seemed to be Russian, in those places I mentioned. I hadn't given this any thought whatsoever, so I was a bit surprised. I wanted to do "Russian immersion", and Ukraine is not ideal for that, because the Ukrainian language is always present to some extent. My mistake for not informing myself properly.
I think the Black Sea coast of Ukraine is more or less fully Russian speaking.
I spent quite a long time in Belarus and I was very much listening out for anyone speaking Belarussian. I only heard it a couple of times, in a rural place. Some other people in the same village (old ladies) were speaking Polish between them.
I asked lots of people about Belarussian, and older people said they'd love to use it, but they just didn't know it very well. Younger people had done it in school and could use it, but essentially didn't. Some signs are in Belarussian, for example metro stations, and street signs. But almost everything else is in Russian, and all the streets have an alternative Russian name. Some Belarussians have a bit of an accent when speaking Russian, which makes it sound a bit different. They are quite nationalistic about it and WANT to preserve the language. But in reality it's more convenient to speak Russian, so that's what happens. Belarus has only 9 million inhabitants and for books and films Russian has much more to offer - same thing as for all smaller languages.