Ukrainian

Hello,

I have managed to learn how to speak conversational Russian quite well and am approaching fluency. I can now understand hour long news broadcasts in whole and can work out the meaning of words from their roots, prefix and suffix.

I wrote the above not to show off, but to illustrate my strange problem. Despite the fact that I have only about a year to go to really master russian, I cannot pronounce Ukrainian correctly. Despite the fact that these two languages are quite phonetically close, I cannot make many Ukrainian sounds correctly.

My question (finally) is: Is it difficult for native Russian speakers to pronounce Ukrainian? Also, has any other American learning Russian found it far less difficult to pronounce Russian than Ukrainian.

Sorry if this is such a boring question, but it really makes me mad that I cannot say "hovorit" correctly! (Wife laughs at me.) :(

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Originally Posted by Holopegozheni

Hello,

I have managed to learn how to speak conversational Russian quite well and am approaching fluency. I can now understand hour long news broadcasts in whole and can work out the meaning of words from their roots, prefix and suffix.

I wrote the above not to show off, but to illustrate my strange problem. Despite the fact that I have only about a year to go to really master russian, I cannot pronounce Ukrainian correctly. Despite the fact that these two languages are quite phonetically close, I cannot make many Ukrainian sounds correctly.

My question (finally) is: Is it difficult for native Russian speakers to pronounce Ukrainian? Also, has any other American learning Russian found it far less difficult to pronounce Russian than Ukrainian.

Sorry if this is such a boring question, but it really makes me mad that I cannot say "hovorit" correctly! (Wife laughs at me.) :(

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I don't think Ukrainian is any harder; actually it is probably a bit easier because it's written more phonetically and some of the more tricky features of Russian pronunciation aren't so much of an issue, such as vowel reduction, or devoicing of the final consonants.
I think that first of all, your wife is a bit picky ;) and that you may be a bit overestimating your spoken Russian, too.
Plus, there are probably some issues that carry over from your study of Russian, like you might be tempted to pronounce "и" or "е" the way they sound in Russian, even though they correspond to different sounds.
The Russian 'g' may be a bit more familiar to you than the Ukrainian 'h', but the latter should not be a big problem -- certainly not any more than the English 'h' is for the Russians.

Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

[quote="Holopegozheni"]Hello,
Is it difficult for native Russian speakers to pronounce Ukrainian?

No it is not, but the accent will anyway be noticed. Any Ukranian will spot Russian speaking ukranian. I even remember some of my ukranian friends gave me couple of words that a russian will never pronounce correctly...too bad i don't remember them....

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Originally Posted by Holopegozheni

Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

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Darn it, and I was going to provide an answer...

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Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

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If you need a comprehensible answer, here it is:
No, it is not so difficult for Russians to pronounce Ukrainian. The only problem you may encounter is a mild accent. But if you speak Russian with an accent then you will speak Ukrainian with an accent as well.

If you cant even pronounce Havorit then you, my friend, are the idiot.

I thought there was more RUssian spoken in Ukraine nowadays than Ukrainian? Wouldn't a person get along just fine knowing only russian? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

I believe so, my friend is from Ukraine, but only knows Russian.

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Originally Posted by Platinum

I thought there was more Russian spoken in Ukraine nowadays than Ukrainian? Wouldn't a person get along just fine knowing only russian? Forgive me if I'm wrong.

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In the West of Ukraine, in L'vov (L'viv in Ukrainian), people speak Ukrainian and are not perfect at Russian. But it is true, that by choice most people speak Russian.

Holopegozheni, I am a bastartd on this board, but even I can see you were unfairly aggressive towards laxxy.

And as Dogboy said, you are the idiot if you can't pronounce Ukrainian properly, as for English speakers it is easier to say than Russian, for a number of reaons:

1. Palatisation occurs much much less in Ukrainian than Russian.

Russian: Вы живёте = ( soft V and soft T)
Ukrainian Ви хивете = (hard V and hard T)

2. Ukrainian has no Ы sound, the Russian learners nightmare sound.
3. Г in Ukrainian is pretty much just an English H but voiced.
4. О is never reduced to A.
5. In akward sounding consonant clusters, В сan be pronounced as У or English W

[I speak with a Western Ukrainian accent]

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Originally Posted by Holopegozheni

Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

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Holy "easily offended", Batman!
-Fantom

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Originally Posted by Holopegozheni

Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

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here:
http://lleo.aha.ru/na/ua/

lol

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Originally Posted by fantom605

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Originally Posted by Holopegozheni

Can someone who is NOT a complete idiot please provide an answer?

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Holy "easily offended", Batman!
-Fantom

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Maybe we are being to hard on him...

Holopegozheni - "Жіно! Я хочу говорити по-українському"
Mrs. Holopegozheni - "WTF!? You can't pronounce Ukrainian for shit!!"
Holopegozheni - "I'm sorry! I'll say it right next time!"
Mrs. Holopegozheni - "You're right you fucking will!"
Holopegozheni - "Please don't hit me! Please!
Mrs. Holopegozheni - "I'm gonna get my stick"
Holopegozheni - "No, not the stick, I'm sorry!"
Mrs. Holopegozheni - "I'm gonna teach you a lesson"
Holopegozheni - "No, it hurst! Oh my arms! Stop it hurts, I'm sorry!"
Mrs. Holopegozheni - "I'll teach you not to diss my language!"
Holopezheni - "No, not my eyes!"
Mr.s Holopegozheni - "AHAHAHHAHAHH! Take that bitch!"

etc.

Haha, that was funny... Everyone around me thinks I have a mental disorder now becuase I was laughing out loud reading that one, Taty! :lol:

-Fantom

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Originally Posted by TATY

2. Ukrainian has no Ы sound, the Russian learners nightmare sound.

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I don't think it's correct. Ukrainian has the same sound, only spelled as И. Russian И is written as I (dotted i) in Ukrainian.

Anther similarity to English - voiced consonants are pronounced voised at the end of the word.

"Mushroom" in Ukrainian and Russian
гриб [грыб] - hryb (not sure how to render Ukrianian "Г" in the transcription).
гриб [грип] - grip