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Hello All,
I speak Russian fluently.
I wanted to know if anyone might be able to help me learn "Surzhik." That is, the mix of Russian and Ukrainian that is spoken in South Eastern Ukraine.
Is there a particular set of Ukrainian words that are regularly used instead of the Russian words?
Any help would be great. Thanks
I should add that I don't really want to learn Ukrainian. Just the ability to understand about 300-700 words that are commonly used in this region would be very very very helpful. Thanks.
Erm, since Surzhyk is not a standard language, it doesn't have one form. The closer to the Russian border you get, the more Russian Surzhyk becomes and the further away from Russia you get, the less Russian it gets.
I don't think you can "learn surzhyk". Also, surzhyk isn't really a mix of Russian and Ukrainian, it is basically Ukrainian grammatically, with Russian vocab, not vice versa.
If it is Ukrainian with Russian vocabulary, then would you suggest learning Ukrainian grammar and then simply applying it to the Russian I already know?
The people I would like to communicate with come from Dnepropetrovskaya Oblast'. Perhaps that would help narrow it down as far as "how Russian their surzhik is." However, this axiom seems a bit too rigid and academic for practical implementation.
The latter part of your question was what I was looking for in terms of a response. Any substantive and constructive answer that simply deals with the subject matter of my question would be most appreciated.
By the way, if the answer is simply, "One cannot learn to understand spoken surzhik without first learning Ukrainian in full," then that would be an acceptable answer as well.
oh just f it all, go ahead and digress all you want.... sigh. :roll:
Surely, these people from the Dnepropetrovskaya oblast' can speak a more standard form of Russian if you asked them to, I don't think you have to speak Surzhyk to be able to communicate with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrei_michaelovich
Is this for a girl?
Rooster: Sort of. My wife is Ukrainian, from Marganetz to be precise. I recently sponsored her Grandma to come to the United States.
Bilo bi prekrasno, konechno, govorit' s nei po-russki. Tol'ko, ya znau po sobstvennomu opitu, chto ludi iz etogo raiona predpochitaut smes' russkogo s ukrainskom.
Znau dannie ukrainskie slova:
Mova - Yasik
Devchina - Devushka
Scho - Chto
Tse - Eto
Hto - Kto
Yak - Kak
I voobshe, ya mogu dogadat'sa o chem rech' idet, koli absolutno niobxodimo.
Ya, mezhdu prochim, xorosho znau russkii alfavit, no k sozheleniu, seichas nevozmozhno na nem pisat' iz-za "texnicheskix zatrudnenij."
Spasibo za pomosh'
Rooster:
Konecho "ona" - eto kasaetsa moei babushki. Moya zhena prevoshodno govorit i po-russki i po-ukrainski.
Nu, ya znau chto ti, dolzhno bit', dumaesh' pro sebya, "Chto etot paren' prosto ne obrashaet'sq k zhenoi?"
Ya konechno davno bi eto i sdelal, no ne mogu. Ona vrach', i kogda prixodit domoi, ei hochetsa tol'lko raslabit'sa. Ona ne hochet prepodavat' ukrainskii yasik, i ya polnostu ponimau.
Tak chto, esli ktmo mog bi mne pomogat', bilo bi ochen' polezno.
POka/
I'd just try talking to her babushka, and you will probably be able to understand her and if not, you'll soon pick up the Ukrainian words she uses. I expect in the Dnipropetrovsk oblast' it will be more like Russian anyway.
Well, she was originally from the Carpathians until she was forced to move by the Soviet's. I think that she has lived in Dnepropetrovkaya oblast' from the age 14. Also, I have heard her speak before, and she definitely uses a mix. So, I would like to learn some.
Its okay though, if nobody knows any Ukrainian.
I just got a private note from a forum user who apparently got his panties in a bunch over my posts. Sorry if I offended anyone else. I certainly did not make any statements nor ask any questions maliciously.
:o If it was written in an insulting or offensive manner my suggestion is to let MasterAdmin know.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrei_michaelovich
Thanks Lampada, but it really doesn't bother me. It is actually quite funny that they took the time to write me such a heated letter. Feather brained ramblings shouldn't be quelled, just laughed at. And so... hahaha. :lol:
Who was it? I think this person deserves a naming and shaming, there was nothing wrong with what you were asking.
"Who was it?"--
Некий linnilu. Зарегистрировался в Феврале. Никаких постов нету. Скорей всего зарегистрировался именно с целью посылать пользователям оскорбительные письма. Печально... такой одинокий человек, наверно.
Может быть, желания оскорбить, как такового, не было? Просто само слово "суржик" неприятное. Меня, например, оно коробит, ассоциируется с необразованностью.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrei_michaelovich
linnilu sent me a message correcting something I wrote in Ukrainian, so I'm guessing they were a Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainian who doesn't like Surzhyk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
А мне кажется нормальным... Т.к. везде, где сосуществуют два языка, появляется какие-либо варианты смешения.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
А суржик - это не результат влияния переходных между украинским и русским диалектов? Ведь в 20 веке на язык большое влияние оказывали выходцы из деревни, в том числе из восточных регионов. А в основе украинского литературного языка лежат западные диалекты, ближе к польскому?
Украинские нациналисты суржик активно "не любят", так как считают его наследием русской окупации. Хотя это уже политика...[/quote]Quote:
linnilu sent me a message correcting something I wrote in Ukrainian, so I'm guessing they were a Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainian who doesn't like Surzhyk.
Мне лично слово "суржик" не кажется неприятным, но сам суржик недолюбливают (или точнее сказать, не уважают) как "западенцы", так и ... э... "восточцы", предпочитающие изъясняться на правильном укр. или русс. языке. Он действительно в какой-то мере считается признаком малообразованности - профессора, говорящего на суржике, вы вряд ли найдете.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Если по теме, то "выучить" суржик невозможно, т.к. он существенно разнится от области к области, и даже от человека к человеку. Как тут уже заметили, суржик представляет собой либо русский со вкраплениями укр. слов и отдельными элементами укр. грамматики, либо украинский, "подпорченный" русским (разные бывают вариации :)).
Но проблем с пониманием не должно быть. Отдельные незнакомые укр. слова можно понять по контексту, а "суржиковская" грамматика не настолько необычна, чтобы запутать русскоязычного собеседника. ;)
В любом случае, если вы будете говорить на чистом русском языке, любой житель Днепропетровской области вас поймет.
ЗЫ. Все имхо. )