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The Russ originally were swedish Viking correct, was there a large influx of swedes or just some hordes? Also how is Russia influenced by the scandinavian take over, or whatever you would call it? is that why there are more blondes in Russia then in the caucus's, if that is even true?
Not quite - though there are strong theorys in many directions in this subject. You can check the scandinavian lounge, where I posted something about this very topic, and if you don't understand Swedish or Russian, I'll be happy to translate it for you, if you have any questions!
Best Regards !
Zhenya
Of course Russia and Sweden in particular, have a mutual history because of their geograpical closeness. (particullary from a historical perspective, when Finland for most of it's "lifetime" has been a part of Sweden) So needless to say there are quite obvious traces of interaction beetween the two, and of course in particular the western parts of Russia.
The control of the Baltic see, has mostlybeen the source of conflict but of course also served as a link for trading and exchange between people.
About the name "Rus" there is a theory that the name derrives from the name of a Viking "Chieftain", with whom a large numer of slavic people joined to battle, and which, with the "successful" raids of the vikings towards the east and "middleeast", became more and more influential. (roughly!)
However this is a theory, and doesn't neccessarily have to be true!
p.s see scandinavian lounge...
Other theory says the names were known by Hebrew people centuries ago even in the references of Gog, Magog, Tubal, Mosoc mentioned in Genesis 10:2 thousands of years ago. It's good to remember ancient languages have a lot to say about history lost in the midst of time. Arabians (who have a language linked to Hebrew and Aramaic) have always thought some Chinese tribes are the offspring of Japhet and although many people would critize this is "mythology" the shovel of archeologists have found many times there was real history behind, Troy is just an example. This aspect in particular is very interesting when we know Russians have been identified like "white Chinese" with the features like actor Charles Bronson (whose real name was Charles Buchinsky actually and you bet Russian mining people blood was in his).
http://custance.org/old/time/5ch1.html
www.ao.net/~fmoeller/gen10.htm
http://custance.org/Library/Volume1/Par ... pter3.html
www.bibledecoded.com/understanding1.html
www.creationism.org/csshs/v06n2p04.htm
:idea:
There was some old theory that the Slav tribes were fighting and couldnt agree on anything so they invited a Swedish leader to rule over them. Of course this is quite unikely. Most likely the Swedes invaded.
There were archaelogical finds of Swedish origin on in moden day Ukraine, or around that area. I wrote an essay about this. But I forgot what I wrote.
yes that there are areas in Ukraina that still today speaks Swedish (a fun version :D of it) is of course a fact "Gammelsvenskby" f. ex, but this does't mean that they have "contributed" to the "Rus name"
:lol: The Vikings being invited somewhere :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Even though you forgot what you DID write in your essay, so long as you're sure that you DIDN'T write that they were invited. lol. Because, an "F" just wouldn't have cut it. Expulsion, at very least. Or even better, extradition to Sweden, where they probably actually encourage such a theory.
Obviously you are not familiar with how one writes a history essay. I mentioned the theory, then give arguements why or why not it is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by brett
The most valid version on this topic (in my opinion) is
"Russ/Ross" comes from the boundary river Ros' south of Kiev.
The Norwegian and North Vikings who founded the first Russian State -Rossiya- were known as rus, word related to Viking term rothsmen or oarmen.
Row-row-row your boat, gently by the stream, merely, merely, merely, merely...life is but a dream.....(sang Spock Leonard Nimoy in Star Trek V)...
The word "slavic" are related to the word "slave" in Roman and Bizantine epoch, great porcentage of the slaves came from the South of Russia, or Scythia, as was known in those times. Yet, the history is ......far away from these times....as I said.
:roll:
I suppose if we go analyzing these things we will understand a lot linked with other ancient civilizations. Chess game, played from ancient times, was probably invented in Iran (Persia) receiving other influences and then spread to the world. The Russian word of the game -shakmati- is close to the original name indicating the antiquity. The Irainian term is shah mat (that appropiatly means "Sha (Xa) is dead", the Anglican version was translated chekmate, in Portuguese xeque-mate, in Spanish jaque-mate.
I was quoting Japhet (Noah's son) and some links maybe 1% of you wanted to read, it's interesting the term "japhetic" included small number of mysterious languages like ancient Sumerian, Georgian, Circassian and Basque...which has a dialect in Caucasian mountains although is spoken in Spain.
That's just a theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitial
Yeah right and the word Sweden (Швеция) related to Russian term for sewer - швец. And Norway surely comes from russian word нора (hole). And Vikings are nothing else than husbands of girl, Вика (Vika) by name. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitial
The term Россия didnt come into use until much much later. That's why Russian has two adjectives for Russian: Русский and Россиский. The former is derived from Русь, the latter is derived from РоссияQuote:
Originally Posted by N
Very speculative yes!Quote:
The Norwegian and North Vikings who founded the first Russian State -Rossiya-
That's just a theory.
chinitial wrote:
were known as rus, word related to Viking term rothsmen or oarmen.
Yeah right and the word Sweden (Швеция) related to Russian term for sewer - швец. And Norway surely comes from russian word нора (hole). And Vikings are nothing else than husbands of girl, Вика (Vika) by name.
My source was a linguist, not my invention and is not just a matter of using false cognates or homophonous meaning different things to write whatever funny association as Taty writes, it's all about history. Even the variations you have mentioned used similar root. Yet, for every theory -even the ones anyone can write- there's an anti-theory in a world where science no longer exists but thousands of scientists in Neo-Babel specialities saying contradictory things. It's a well known fact Scandinavian people traveled far away and the contact was there so I'm not saying nothing new that historians didn't know. Vikings were in Northambria and in fact influenced the English language. For example the word "skull" comesa from Northmen skol and reminds the time when Vikings drank beer in the skulls of their enemies.
English German Dutch
bath bad bad
best best best/bedste
blind blind blind
book buch boek/bog
bread brot brood/ brod
break brechen breken/ braekke
brown braun bruin/brun
cold kalt koud/kold
come kommem komme
dance tanzen danzen/danse
daughter Totchter dotcher/datter
drink trinken drikke
false falsch falsk/vals
father Vater vader/fader
find finden vinden/finde
finger Finger vinger
foot Fuss voet/fod
give geben geben/give
good gut goed/god
green gr
sand Sand zand/sand
see sehen zien/se
send senden zend/sende
shoe Schuh schoen/sho
shoulder Schulter shouder/skulder
silver Silber zilver /sol
sing singen zingen/synge
sink sinken zinken/synke
so so zoo/sa
storm Sturm storm
summer Sommer sommer
think denken denken/taenke
thirst Durst durst/torst
under unter onder/under
wash waschen wassen/vashe
water Wasser water /vand
west Western west/vest
wild wild wild/vild
wind Wind wid/vind
winter Winter winter/vinter
wolf Wolf wolf/ulf
word Wort woord/ord
young jung jong/ung
Some people should think before making irony...
Very nice lists I must say, but how, pray tell, does this concern the topic?
It's an example about the influence of the language spread by the people who were in specific place and time. So, when someone makes irony of things he (she) barely knows it's needed a reminder of these things. If an ancient Viking ship with a dragon in the front arrived in Island harbour, it wouldn't be a problem the communication so we need to study deeper the reasons of these similarities to discover when people met and how the language was spread. I'm mentioning Dutch and Denmark, well were these people offspring of Vikings too? How come Russian language itself was influenced by this if they were visited by Vikings themselves? So, you can't limitate yourself thinking that because you know Russian you already know too much. You should understand maybe the Viking history is related to Russians even before the dogma they taught you in school. I can give you another example. Jewish Russian ancient languages researcher, Zecharia Sitchin, explains Chinese and Sumerian indeed have something in common like glyphs or math spots linked to lines like Fran Rampsey math. He's right. It's not only his discovery but other people have analized cuneiform writing and compared:
www.creationism.org/csshs/v07n4p24.htm
OOPS! That link is off the net now! But I have the info already if anyone is interested.
Now, the specialist have found proto-Sumerian scripture in Peru and Bolivia far away from Mesopotamia!
www.geocities.com/webatlantis/fuentemagna.htm
http://pub69.ezboard.com/fancientlosttr ... D=16.topic
www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bay/7051/Awen3a.htm
www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bay/poko2.htm
www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bay/bpokotia.htm
So, when people have linked Chinese with Sumerian scripture and you find proto-Sumerian language in the Andes where you never suspected cos you never read such a thing (and then you discovered Egyptian mummies had cocaine and nicotine and were not mere droppings as critics imagined, coca from where?), then you may ask if Chinese/Sumerian maybe related to language of the Incas. Could it be possible? Of course if homophonous words are found the "experts" will say they are mere coincidences or false cognates sometimes ignoring the roots and the fact they are not just similar words bt do have same meaning:
www.zompist.com/proto.html#chinesequechua
Regarding Basque, for example, the linguists admit they know too little and yet we need to understand the history and geology also hidden behind the fact in Caucasian mountains there's a dialect of that language spoken in Spain! Yet, some dogmas have to be preserved all in behalf of "science" and ignorance....
It's like talking about Maya civilization. The experts defending the paradigmas are gonna say the temple of Chaac Mol was the temple of rattlesnake or bat or even a parrot (try to see if the tongue of the rattlesnake comes out of the mouth) instead of saying what is clearly visible here:
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:93
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:94
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:95
Why would they say that? Of course it's cursed to imagine people from Central America before Columbus saw non-existing elephants or that maybe people from Africa or India arrived to Mesoamerica and influenced with Chinese figures in the pots or Lotus flower Hindu positions or dragons and so on...it would be a disgrace for the "patriotism" of the whole nation to admit such a thing! So, even the toys of elephants had to be removed from Jalapa Mexican museum just like Americans do in Smithsonian dungeons with other things.
They are not gonna tell you the depictions of elephants (not mamuts) and giraffes were done also in Bolivia and Colombia nor show the photos either.
http://www.sitchin.com/elephant.htm
They are not gonna tell you the archeologist Carter who discovered Tutankamon mummy also found BOOMERANGS as part of the treasure and the Curator of the British museum admitted also a knife made of STEEL that was more important for the Egyptians than the rest of gold (that I had the privilege to see in Egypt myself). They are not gonna tell you the son of a pharaoh travelled as far as Australia and we have evidence of that:
www.crystalinks.com/egyptaustralia.html
So, I'm well aware what I'm talking about. Russia is not an exception at all! That's why I have said Arab and Hebrew memories relate both ethnic and language in Russia frontiers in the past as Japhet offspring. But I bet some wise a$$e$ think that because they wrote an essay they don't even remember ...they really know. Waw! Not even the ones who really study dare to say they know. The more you know the more humble you become regarding eliminating possibilities.
Dictionary.com, as usual, says it better than I can:Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitial
[quote]Word History: The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290, spelled sclave. The spelling is based on Old French esclave from Medieval Latin sclavus, “Slav, slave,” first recorded around 800. Sclavus comes from Byzantine Greek sklabos (pronounced skl
As far as the Slavs' own self-designation goes, its meaning is, understandably, better than “slave” it comes from the Indo-European root *kleu-, whose basic meaning is “to hear” and occurs in many derivatives meaning “renown, fame.”
Even to read the dictionary we need to pay careful attention. In my message I said the word is RELATED to so the dictionary agrees. Yet, what the dictionary doesn't explain in details (and dictionaries don't say the whole truth) is WHY THE SLAVS PREFERED THE SELF-DESIGNATION . That counts indeed.
Also, although the dictionary expresses an idea already believed (and in the path of science linguistic has to be understood according to recent historical facts and hence, always changing and not saying the ultimate truth), the dictionary doesn't deny. It says an opinion: "is BETTER than slave". My source is not a mere linguist expert in one or two languages but a guy who was fluent in 30 languages and that was named in People's Almanac in the list of the bigger 15 linguists in the world. Not just a dictionary....with all do respect.
If there's really a magazine named the "People's Almanac" that named a list of the "bigger 15 linguists in the world"...okay, I can't even come up with a suitably hyperbolic statement. "Bigger 15 linguists in the world," for chrissake?
Банан - Banana.
I have a theory that Russian and American is the same language and even the same people, based off of this word.
(Also incudling other languages like swedish, which i speak fluently, that also use the word Banan(a))
That was magnificent guessing of Линдзи! Wow, what a mind, what a mind. Perhaps if I write the year, issue and name you won't shut up or stop from writing imbecilities.
Chinitial, it is common knowledge that German, English, and Dutch are related languages. Those words look like they have the same etymological origins because they do. What's next, an astounding list from Chinitial about the slang words used by Alex & Co. in A Clockwork Orange that resemble Russian words?
I prefered the Lord of the Rings' trilogy better. And on that note, a little known fact about LOR, one which I'm sure you'll all find excedingly enlightening; The language currently known as Finnish, was actually derived from Tolkien's mother-tongue, Elvish.
J.R Tolkien, with scrptures in hand, visited the land eastward of Sweden and taught the locals via his grammatical scriptures, which were in total... yes you guessed it, a trilogy. A proven fact. And further more, something I'm sure you'll all find amusing, one of Tolkien's Elvish descentants is actually on that said list "The Biggest 15 Linguists In the World". He ranks at number 3, at a staggering 532 pounds.
Hmm. Makes you think.
Slav (славяне, словене) - люди владеющие "словом". I.e. Slavs are verbal people. Opposite to "немцы" (germans and all western people) - i.e. dumb and unlanguaged. I'm sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Линдзи
Pravit said "Those words look like they have the same etymological origins because they do". Bravo, clap-clap-clap. You got my point so it's unnecessary to add more things. An the fact you know, it doesn't mean is "common" knowledge nor stips anyone to mention the fact again...just to remember. The question is not something we already know but WHY they do have the same etymological meaning and since WHEN. :lol:
All indo european languages are just variations of the same theme! :D
Yes, that is correct, Zhenya. A prime example would be the word Chinitial. This word is a conglomeration of many a foreign tongue, and refers predominantly to a European of Chinese ethnicity. Originally, Europeans had no single word for such a person, so the cumbersome reference given was man initially from China. It was later compacted into the word Chinaman-itial, comprising of the name of the country of China, and the Latin word for 'origin', initial. It was to be compacted even further, into the word we're today all so familiar with, Chinitial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhenya
*A prominent linguist friend of mine, a descendant of the Elvish author J.R Tolkien, assures me that this is an indesputable proven fact, and not merely theory.
For a full bibliography, simply fill in an application form at;
superi-r-us@bowtome.com.onplease
Well, old Chinitial, if you knew anything of the history of Germanic languages, you would know the answers to the questions you are asking. Tell me, why exactly do many words in Spanish and Portuguese have the same etymological origins? Could it be that they are related languages? Now, if you can link Basque to Georgian, you'll be a hero, linguistically speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinitial
My point is, was and will be this:
The ethymological background must be understood not only analyzing the roots of the words but the people who spoke those languages in specific regions in time, they can't be analyzed only in the basis of the language. I have said and repeat Basque is spoken in Spain and also in Caucasian mountians. If the very linguists themselves are wondering about the theories of the people who spoke those languages are not gonna be a bunch of amateurs who are gonna deny or accept just because they think. Now, it seems some of you have been enjoying so much to chat with me that keep on opening new subthemes of things I said rather than adding to the main thread. So typical!
Lemme ask you, what do you know about the "kelts"?
No. But I've heard of the CeltsQuote:
Originally Posted by chinitial
Chinitial;Yer noht thretnen te show us woht yer've goht hidden op yer kelt, ayer ye? :? Coz ay nay won'en te say et'.Quote:
Lemme ask you, what do you know about the "kelts"?
bwahahahhaahha... I love it...Quote:
I prefered the Lord of the Rings' trilogy better. And on that note, a little known fact about LOR, one which I'm sure you'll all find excedingly enlightening; The language currently known as Finnish, was actually derived from Tolkien's mother-tongue, Elvish.
Chinitial, stop insulting people and pretending that you are so much better than everyone else. Do you not think that just about everyone here has at least taken a little time to learn the background on many languages? honestly? Please, instead of assuming everyone else is inferrior to yourself, give them the benefit of the doubt. A good scholar is a humble scholar.
--Peace
---Plastic
The Ukrainian historians Mikhail Hrushevsky and Orest Subtelny dismissed the "Normanist theory"(claiming the Rus were Vikings), saying that the only evidence for such are documents that were written several centuries after the fact. Theres no evidence outside these documents to claim that the Rus were Vikings. Orest Subtelny even notes that archeological evidence minimalizes the role that Vikings played in Rus society.