Yeah, I probably spend too much time in the political section of this forum... :friends: :flazhok:Quote:
Originally Posted by ac220
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Yeah, I probably spend too much time in the political section of this forum... :friends: :flazhok:Quote:
Originally Posted by ac220
А в Иране, условия совсем другие. Там секс вообще бывает, но существует суровый дефицит гомо-секса. (Или так утвердил президент Ахмадинежад, выступая с речью у ООН!) :unknown:
Как? И в Иране бывает??? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Throbert McGee
Он признался, что чувствует дефицит гомо-секса? :ROFL:Quote:
но существует суровый дефицит гомо-секса. (Или так утверждал президент Ахмадинежад, выступая с речью в ООН!) :unknown:
(What you wrote means they in Iran need and miss that kind of sex).
[quote=Оля]Он признался, что чувствует дефицит гомо-секса? :ROFL:Quote:
Originally Posted by "Throbert McGee":anj7v2ll
(What you wrote means they in Iran need and miss that kind of sex).[/quote:anj7v2ll]
That was my intended meaning -- I love it when I try to be humorous in Russian, and actually succeed! :yahoo:
His actual statement was something like "We do not have homosexuals in Iran" -- and naturally he was ridiculed in many American newspapers for (apparently) being naive enough and/or insane enough to believe the statistically absurd claim that no Persian man has ever played with another man's "horseradish" :wink: .
But in fact, what he probably wanted to express was something closer to "We don't have your type of homosexuals in Iran". In other words, that the modern phenomenon of people being "openly gay" and having Gay Pride Parades and other American/Western manifestations of homosexuality is something alien to Iran's culture. (And when I say "alien," I mean that in Ahmadinejad's mind, it's not merely чужой-alien, but totally инопланетянский-alien!)
So anyway, the explanation that the word секс, back in Soviet days, had strongly negative associations with whores and pornography, reminded me of the Ahmadinejad speech to the UN.
I should be BANNED from the Political forum. Seriously!Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
Is that possible Lampada?
It is distracting me from studying Russian!
All that can be also said about Russia. Maybe not as strongly as in Iran, but this kind of "freedom" is alien to us in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Throbert McGee
Well... I can confess that I don't like this word either, although I live nowadays, and I am not 50 y.o. or more.Quote:
So anyway, the explanation that the word секс, back in Soviet days, had strongly negative associations with whores and pornography, reminded me of the Ahmadinejad speech to the UN.
I don't know what type of common swear words exist in Russian.. Whether they are "sexual" or "religious". Where I come from they are religious: Related to profanity and the Devil. There are hardly no sexual swear words, and those who exist are considered INCREDIBLY rude. Most people would never use them, including men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
It is SO disturbing to hear people swear with sexual words if you are not used to it.... There is some kind of politeness rule in the UK of not swearing in front of women (for men). But many men ignore that.
You don't really experience that until you live in an English speaking country because it doesn't happen in films or English speaking TV programs, or even in music.
It was a shock and I really dislike it.
Almost in every English speaking film I've watched in my life I heared actors absolutely freely use the word 'f..k' a lot of times during the film. EVEN from women and CHILDREN. As an example, just remember the film 'Love Actually' (which is considered quite a 'good-feeling' film, as far as I know). The only one where I didn't hear this word was 'The Perfume', I think. So I 100% know that Russian swear words which have the same meaning are MUCH ruder than English because you hardly ever hear them in Russian films from famous and respected actors' lips. When an English speaking character in a movie is floating in a boat and suddenly sees reefs ahead, he can easily exclaim, "Oh f...!" A Russian character in a film would never say a 'mat' word in a situation like that. He would exclaim "Чёрт!", or say anything else, but never something of mat (I repeat, I mean films).Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
ok... way off topic now, but I have enjoyed reading this thread!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Johanna... there have been two people who I met at different times and very different locations (one West Coast (Hollywood) and one East Coast - Florida) who just both happen to be British males. Each of them had the same verbal habit of saying the word f**k after almost every other word.Neither one of them cared who was around when they spoke. Old ladies in their "f**king" 80s could have been next to them and it would not have made a difference. The first time I heard this I was just a babe in the woods, I had never heard anyone speak like that. No cursing in my universe! Then it became a sort of game with everyone...we would count how many times he could say the word in one sentence.Quote:
"I was f**king late today because I got a f**king ticket on the f**king freeway from the f**king cop for f**king going 10 f**king miles over the f**king speed limit f**king sh*t."
I'm a fan of cursing when people can use it creatively. See Roddy Doyle The Barrytown Series.
Jazz (rockzmom, for those who don’t know), that was f**king A plus funny! :yahoo:Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Then I imagined what old "f**king" ladies in their 80s would be in Russian. Wicked! :D
Swear words in America are much more casual now than they used to be. It seems the generation before me would swear only when mad, my generation swears as normal casual conversation. Example: If I see a friend I haven't seen for a long time I can say "what the f*ck have you been up to?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
This phrase became known by, probably, every Soviet person of that time:
"В СССР секса нет..."
As far as I can remember (I've seen that TV bridge and I was 14-15 years old), the lady, who said these words, stressed the word for "sex" and spoke it in the same way, one speaks about rather dirty issues. Again, as far as I remember, she probably meant adult movies, magazines and so on. The phrase about love was added (if it was added at all), in order to make it sound not that comically.
Welcome to the forum Dmitry.
At least someone who actually watched the programme!
I don't know anything about this, but I might have said the exact same thing as she did! I often speak before considering exactly how it comes out...
She probably thought it was a slightly insulting question about her country and just wanted to say "there is no pornograhy here!".
When someone asks a question like that, the best answer is probably "none of your business!" or "better than you could imagine in your wildest dreams".
(I guess there must have been porn in the USSR though, but probably harder to get hold of, instead of sold everywhere... [good in my opinion])
Well, there were numerous people who claimed that they had seen it, including me. :) But yes, this account and one by Полуношник are the most lucid ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Regarding your feelings and interpretation, - yes, that's pretty much it. Even if the original question wasn't about that, that's the most probable way it was understood.
As for the best ways to respond to something like that... If only we all were that witty in public... :) /Sighs, remembers his own ill-considered lines. None on the live TV, fortunately. /
А я сначала подумала, что это ответ про порнографию. :mosking:Quote:
Originally Posted by ac220
Мда. Режь цитаты, не режь, всё равно возникают неудобства в чтении... :mosking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Оля -- first, as a quick note: in colloquial US English, "to cuss" or "to use cuss words" is a more natural-sounding way to express "ругаться" or "говорить матом". ("Cuss" was originally a rural dialect pronunciation of "curse", and rhymes with "bus" -- so one could phonetically spell it as кас in Cyrillic.) In formal contexts, of course, one can say "to swear" or "to use obscenities" or "to use profanities".Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Second, the "de-taboo-ing" of cuss words is a relatively recent phenomenon here in America -- for example, when I was in high school in the late 1980s, a film could get an "R" rating if the word "f--k" was used only twice in the entire movie! And a decade earlier than that, one appearance of "the F-word" was sufficient for an "R" rating. (NB: "rated R" означает, что вход в кинотеатр без родителей запрещен детям, до 17 лет.)
Между прочим, как я уже объяснял где-то на форуме, мой папа служил военным, точнее в "Marines". И на основе таких фильмов, как Full Metal Jacket (в котором актер Р. Ли Эрми, играющий в роле сурового саржанта, показывает зрителям как использовать "английский мат" на уровне художественного мастера), люди представляют, что мой папа тоже всегда ругался матом. Но это совсем не так -- во всей моей жизни, я услышил у него "мат" лишь два раза -- именно фразы "goddamnit" и "that's b_llsh_t!"
I simply mean to say that, although you might get a different impression from Hollywood movies, many English speakers remain very conservative about using cuss words.
Well, you know, what is the difference between US and Soviet/Russia films? Mat words are just never used in our films, not "twice", or "once", but just never. Okay, let's say this "never" means 99% because there are some exceptions, of course; but in the films where 'mat' was used that I can recall now, those words were exceptionally indispensable for the artistic concept of the film, and for the director's message. For example, some 'mat' words are used in the film "Любовник" (2002); concretely, the word "б...ь". But the main character used this word not as a curse, but in its original meaning (a woman who is a prostitute); he calls that way his wife who was unfaithful to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Throbert McGee
There is another film with a 'famous' scene where a character is cursing with 'mat' word during several minutes; that scene made even a scandal of some kind if we can call such a trifle a scandal in today's Russia. But then again, this character has a strong stress, he lost his temper and is being in hysterics. If he would have remembered that he didn't turn off the electric iron at home, he would never say anything of mat (in a Russian movie).
You know, most of the movies I meant were not American, Hollywood movies; they mostly were English (British) :)Quote:
Между прочим, как я уже объяснял где-то на форуме, мой папа служил военным, точнее в "Marines". И на основе таких фильмов, как Full Metal Jacket (в котором актер Р. Ли Эрми, играющий [s:15v46e0r]в роле[/s:15v46e0r] сурового сержанта, показывает зрителям, как использовать "английский мат" на уровне художественного мастерства), люди представляют, что мой папа тоже всегда ругался матом. Но это совсем не так -- [s:15v46e0r]во всей моей жизни,[/s:15v46e0r] (and no comma) за всю свою жизнь я услышал [s:15v46e0r]у[/s:15v46e0r] от него "мат" лишь два раза -- а именно фразы "goddamnit" и "that's b_llsh_t!"
I simply mean to say that, although you might get a different impression from Hollywood movies, many English speakers remain very conservative about using cuss words.
Olya, what you are saying is probably true for Soviet films, but I cannot say that I didn't hear swearing in the modern movies. At first, swearwords appeared in books (to my amazement I discovered one day that Pushkin himself too knew all these words :D ). Then these words have slowly saturated onto the screens. When they are shown on TV, these words are censored of course, but then again - this doesn't happen always. The original sound (on a DVD, for example) contain everything in its 'uncensored' form.
Слово "ж.па" там постоянно мелькает, а вот откровенного мата по пустяковым поводам (споткнулся, уронил что-то, вспомнил что-то) пока нет.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Уточним, что слово "сука" и ему подобные матом не являются.
Ты по телевизору их смотришь? (Там это всё вырезается).Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Ну, на вскидку: Бригада, 9 рота, Сволочи, Война, Граффити - во всех этих фильмах присутствует откровенный мат.
Ну еще не хватало, чтобы я такую пургу смотрела на DVD. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
"Война", "Граффити", "Бригада" - не смотрела.
В общем, я о чем говорю. Вот ты назвал фильмы, которые в основном рассказывают про войну и криминальный мир. Когда потные грязные мужики лежат в окопе и каждую секунду могут умереть, - в такой ситуации мат в кино я могу понять (в жизни тоже, разумеется). Но когда человек сидит в кафе и вдруг вспоминает, что он вовремя не позвонил шефу, а вокруг него куча народу, в том числе женщины и дети (да еще и зрители у экрана) - вот в такой ситуации в русском кино герой матом никогда не скажет. Там, где он скажет "вот черт!" или "ой, ё!..", герой американского кино смачно десять раз произнесет свой фак-перефак.
На самом деле я ничего плохого в _УМЕСТНОМ_ мате не вижу. Понятное дело, что копировать то, как разговаривают друг с другом подростки в школе, когда они думают, что их никто не слышит, не стоит. Но вот, чтобы передать эмоциональное состояние персонажа, когда любой бы на его месте точно также бы выматерился - вполне уместно. Порой, ни один эвфемизм, применяемый сценаристами для этих целей, не может передать "весь заряд".
Матерятся все. Я, честно, за всю свою жизнь не встречал людей, которые не матерятся вообще. Другое дело, одни это делают лишь иногда и, как говорится, "по поводу", а у других это слова-связки для согласования падежей ).
В общем-то, лично я материться начал ещё в детском саду, причём я прекрасно осознавал, для чего все эти слова предназначены и использовал их по прямому назначению, современные детишки, думаю, тоже не исключение.
Throbert, just one note - "Marines" - in Russian - морская пехота, то есть это род войск. Человек, который служит в морской пехоте, называется морской пехотинец, или просто морпех.
Thanks, Dmitry! Вот: Мой папа служил офицером в морской пехоте, поэтому я с детства до юности был окружен морпехами (и военниыми вообще).Quote:
Originally Posted by DmitryS
In US English, the children of military men (and less often, of military women) call themselves "military brats" -- although "brat" is normally negative and refers to an obnoxious, spoiled, badly-behaving child, in this context it has an affectionate meaning. Is there an equivalent phrase in Russian?
2. To Throbert:
If there're former kids of the military they'll answer, but such a name, if it exists, is unknown to general Russian public.
In Russia a movie with 'mat' curses has no demonstration perspective since a TV-station, a producing company can be closed by law if they show something like this. The same is for radio-stations, media and so on.
Of course we do not have sex in Russia! "Sex is... a pervertion. It is bad!" The word itself is forbidden. Sex is something that happening in evil capitalistic world. Soviet... ehm... Russian man with good manners will never have sex except the case when he/she need a child.
Seriosly, we were brought-up in sex-free Soviet country. We afraid to say this word. We were speaking to each other: «When I become an adult, I will never have sex!». Sometimes, someone mentioned: «I think your parents had sex». The child answered: «No! My parents are not so bad!», and started to fight the offender of his/her parents.
When I was a kid we were speaking just the opposite :tease: And I knew the meaning of the word 'sex' since I was 8 years old.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAn
That's pure nonsense, you know? I wonder where were you living if all that you are saying is true in your case?Quote:
Originally Posted by SAn
It wasn't a taboo word, but this theme was simply ignored (not avoided) by official media. This was considered a personal matter and there was nothing to talk about. It was later, with the appearance of AIDS when people started talking about it.
I can say that there was sex in the USSR but nobody talked about it on TV.
The movie 'Full metal jacket' mentioned in this thread, was marvelously translated into Russian by Goblin. That's full of foul language - I mean the scene when the sergeant meets the novics.
Мёртвым бы этого ублюдка в петлю сунул! Гоблина, то есть.
"К его творчеству можно относиться по разному, но оно никого не оставляет равнодушным." :mosking: :mosking: :mosking:Quote:
Originally Posted by alexB
BTW folks.....Just so you know how much I am enjoying this topic....Quote:
Chapter 1
Last year my English teacher, Mr. Clark, said people use curse words because they don’t know any better or more appropriate words to use. Right now I believe him because I can’t think of any adjective in any language to describe how much I dislike school. I can however think of plenty curse or inappropriate words to describe my feelings.
:thumbs: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Ну, меня оставляет... Пугает нестрашно, смешит несмешно. Мнит себя великим переводчиком, хотя таковым не является, просто удачно перевёл несколько фильмов про "криминал" благодаря своим специальным знаниям, и пошёл этот стиль лепить к месту и не к месту.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocodile
The barrack scene from the Full Metal Jacket translated by Goblin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5d7PROOQM
This may be a useful instrument for learning certain depths of the Russian language
"Perversion". Also, NB that the "s" is pronounced here like ж, as in "vision" and "illusion", etc., although the "t" in a word such as "motion" is pronounced like ш.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAn
And just for completeness, the verb "to pervert" has two adjectival forms: "perverted" and "perverse." When speaking of "unnatural sex," the two adjectives are 100% interchangeable, but "perverse" is also used in non-sexual contexts to mean "insanely contrary to logic and scientific fact" or "illogical to the point of being offensive" etc. ("He continues with his perverse theory that Jews are actually reptilian invaders from another planet, disguised as humans." -- but perverted would not be used here.)
Здорово! But I wish it had Russian subtitles... the Russian comes so fast that it's difficult to understand some of the words, even though I'm very familiar with the original English. What word is he using to translate "maggots"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
Does this mean "I want to hang that bastard!"? (I didn't know the word петля, but my dictionary says that "noose" is one of the possible meanings.")Quote:
Originally Posted by alexB
Well, that's just silly! Я сам абсолютно уверен, что мои родители занимались сексом, как минимум, дважды -- ведь я есть, а у меня лишь одна младшая сестра, и братьев нету!Quote:
Originally Posted by SAn
(А если происходилось, на самом деле, что моя мама с папой так занимались больше двух раз, тогда STFU!!, про это я не буду ни слышать и ни думать! Where's the brain-bleach?!) :shock: