Proverb Discussion

Greetings Everyone:

This time I have a new one for you! Each of my chapters in the book has a Russian proverb as a title.

I have found one that I do not understand what the moral is of the proberb and am hoping that people can give me some clues as what to the moral should be.

Since I have the Russian and English already :thumbs: I put this under General Discussion and not the Translation Forum, I hope that was okay.

• Соловья́ ба́снями не ко́рмят.
o Transliteration: Solov'ya basnyami ne kormyat.
o Translation: The nightingale can't be fed by fables.

Also, if you have some other nice proverbs or a link to some that have the Russian transliteration and English, please let me know as well as need some more.

As always, please answer me in English :D
Rockzmom

Hi, rockzmom

1. I think that "Соловья́ ба́снями не ко́рмят" means "Fine words butter no parsnip". "The nightingale can't be fed by fables" seems to be a loan-translation.

2. Please see lots of English/Russian proverbs http://www.homeenglish.ru/Proverb.htm

You are welcome!

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Originally Posted by msbll

1. I think that "Соловья́ ба́снями не ко́рмят" means "Fine words butter no parsnip". "The nightingale can't be fed by fables" seems to be a loan-translation.

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And I liked the Nightingale one :cry: it sounded pretty. :cry:

Now I am worried about the rest of the tranlations that I have as I got them all from the same 47 page document :!:

ran

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

Now I am worried about the rest of the tranlations that I have as I got them all from the same 47 page document :!:

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1. Please send us the tranlations, if any, so that we try to put them right :thumbs:

2. The slides from "Ruslan and Liudmila" movie are posted here http://teachpro.ru/course2d.aspx?idc=20198&cr=4 (First please find Александр Сергеевич Пушкин (1799-1837). Then please find Фильмография and then go to Руслан и Людмила below.)

3. Please make use of the best Russian/English free online dictionary multitran http://multitran.ru/c/m.exe?a=default&SHL=1&hl=1
There are also other following languages - German, French, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Japanese
I think itis helpful.
Here is info about multitran in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitran

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Originally Posted by msbll

3. Please make use of the best Russian/English free online dictionary multitran

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msbll:

Thank you for the links. I actually tried the Соловья́ ба́снями не ко́рмят in the multitran and it found the nightingale phrase along with the one you mentioned!

соловья баснями не кормят | g-sort
gener. fine words butter no parsnips; kind words butter no parsnips; soft words butter no parsnips; hungry bellies have no ears; the belly has no ears
set phr. fair words fill not the belly (used to mean: you can't feed the hungry with words. said (in good humour or seriously) to point to the vital necessity of giving somebody food, money or certain property without delay); the belly is not filled with fair words; bare words buy no barley; an army marches on its stomach; no nightingales live on fairytales; fair words butter no parsnips; a fine cage won't feed the bird (Anglophile); it is no use preaching to a hungry man (Anglophile)

Can you help me understand what you meant by a "loan-translation?" I do not know that term.

Thanks,
Rockzmom.

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

Can you help me understand what you meant by a "loan-translation?" I do not know that term.

Thanks,
Rockzmom.

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Loan-translation is a translation "word-by-word", I think. It supposed to have much less sense in such way of translation. As for me, I like "world-by-word" translation of proverbs, it helps to understand a foreign culture more than you just put an equal common variant as a result of translation.

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

Can you help me understand what you meant by a "loan-translation?" I do not know that term.

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A calque or loan translation is a word or phrase borrowed from another language by literal, word-for-word or root-for-root translation.
For example, the common English phrase "flea market" is a phrase calque that literally translates the French "marché aux puces".
Please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calque

You are welcome!

Hi, here some more russian proverbs and translations:
Пиво без водки - деньги на ветер. Drinking the beer without vodka is simply to spend money.
На вкус и цвет товарища нет. There's no accounting / disputing for taste.
Незваный гость хуже татарина. An uninvited visitor is worse than a Tatar.
Слово не воробей - вылетит не поймаешь. A word is not a sparrow; when it flies out you can not catch it.
За двумя зайцами погонишься, ни одного не поймаешь. Grasp all, lose all.
Любовь зла - полюбишь и козла. Love is vicious - you can fall in love with the billy-goat.

The provebs from site http://www.polyglot-online.com/

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Originally Posted by msbll

For example, the common English phrase "flea market" is a phrase calque that literally translates the French "marché aux puces".

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It's interesting, which language the Russian phrase "блошиный рынок" (literally equal to both English and French) was borrowed from?

Начала изучать изучать английский совсем недавно, и по мере продвижения, часто приходит на ум такая поговорка: Чем дальше в лес, тем больше дров. А также ее более современный вариант: Чем дальше в лес, тем толще партизаны. Думаю, что изучающие русский тоже с этим согласятся.

Больше грязи - толще морда. - the more dirt, the fatter your face.
Хорошей свинье все впрок. - Everything is fine for a good pig.
Работа не волк - в лес не убежит. - Work isn't a wolf. It wont run away into the forest.
От работы кони дохнут. - Нorses die from work.
Трудом прадедным не построиш палат камееных. - By doing honest work you won't build yourself a stone mention.

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Originally Posted by Syeager

Трудом праведным не построишь палат каменных.

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Could anyone explain to me when exactly you use this proverb?

Не плюй в колодец, пригодится водицы напиться

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Originally Posted by vnp

Could anyone explain to me when exactly you use this proverb?

Не плюй в колодец, пригодится водицы напиться

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Direct translation: "Don't spit into a well, you may need it later to quench your thirst."
Used in the meaning :"Don't carelessly insult or harm somebody, you may need his (her, their) help in the future."

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Originally Posted by Basil77

Used in the meaning :"Don't carelessly insult or harm somebody, you may need his (her, their) help in the future."

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I don't think it's only about "somebody", it is about "something" as well.

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Originally Posted by Оля

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Originally Posted by Basil77

Used in the meaning :"Don't carelessly insult or harm somebody, you may need his (her, their) help in the future."

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I don't think it's only about "somebody", it is about "something" as well.

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Of course http://i.smiles2k.net/aiwan_smiles/yes.gif. I just hadn't an idea how to describe this in one phrase. :oops:

Oh!!! I see now!!!

Понял! Спасибо большое! ^ ^

Btw, how do you say this "Oh!" in Russian? :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by vnp

Btw, how do you say this "Oh!" in Russian? :mrgreen:

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You may laugh, but it's "А!" :mrgreen:

(strongly speaking, "Oh" would be "О" in Russian, but in Russian it often sounds too melodramatic, so in most cases we say "А!" or "А-а-а-а!" where you say "Oh" in English).

Hi everyone.... I am bringing this thread back again...

Looking for MORE proverb titles for the chapter titles of the book!

So please help me out:

Here are some proverbs that we have found... we just need to know if...
1. They Russian proverbs?
2. IF yes, please translate into Russian for me.
3. IF no, please correct the English to be the correct version of the Russian version of the proverb (if there is one) and THEN write it for me in Russian as well.
OR Suggest a better proverb!!

Thank you!!!! :bravo:


1. For this one I am trying to replace the title of "Silent Treatment" so a possible idea I found was, "Speech is silver but silence is gold" maybe you have a better idea, if so let me know.

2. A bargain is a bargain

3. A good face is a letter of recommendation

4. Actions speak louder than words

5. All truths are not to be told

6. Ask me no questions and I'll tell you know lies.

7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

8. Cold hands warm heart

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous

10. Wise after the event

11. While there is life there is hope

2. A bargain is a bargain - Уговор дороже денег (literally "A bargain is more valuable than money", i.e. you must keep your word whatever the cost)

3. A good face is a letter of recommendation - it's not Russian. There's a Russian proverb "Встречают по одежке, а провожают по уму" - a rough translation is "Greeting you people judge you by your clothes, and saying goodbye they judge you by your mind".

4. Actions speak louder than words - Дела говорят громче слов. People use this phrase sometimes, but it seems like a word-by-word translation, and not the genuin Russian proverb. There's a saying (which is not a proverb either, but still..) "Больше дела, меньше слов" - "Less words, more action"

5. All truths are not to be told - I can't think of any equivalent at the moment.

6. Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies. - the same

7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - a word by word and rather pompous translation "Красота в глазах смотрящего". Russian equivalents are "О вкусах не спорят" (Don't argue about tastes") and "На вкус и цвет товарищей нет" (~ There is no agreement (friends) about tastes and color)

8. Cold hands warm heart - Холодная голова, горячее средце (Cold head, hot heart) :D A popular phrase from Soviet propaganda was "A KGB agent must have cold head, hot heart and clean hands". ;)

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous - Глупые собаки опасны (literal translation). I think there's a directly opposite Russian proverb "A dog that barks do not bites".

10. Wise after the event - a good Russian saying "Задним умом крепок" (~ Smart in a hindsight).

11. While there is life there is hope - Пока есть жизнь, есть надежда (and other variations).

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

11. While there is life there is hope - Пока есть жизнь, есть надежда (and other variations).

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"Dum spiro spero". (Cicero) = "While I breathe, I hope" in Latin. Пока дышу - надеюсь.

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Russian equivalents are "О вкусах не спорят" (Don't argue about tastes") )

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"De gustibus non disputandum est". Latin again. :)

P.S. I wonder if the word "bite" is applicable to the dog in English? Кажется, это эквивалент "ужалить".

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

10. Wise after the event - a good Russian saying "Задним умом крепок" (~ Smart in a hindsight).

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На ошибках учатся. Mistakes are the origin of experience (knowledge).

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

11. While there is life there is hope - Пока есть жизнь, есть надежда (and other variations).

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Надежда умирает последней. The hope will be the last who will be dead.

Gromozeka gave good examples. My 2 cents:

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1. For this one I am trying to replace the title of "Silent Treatment" so a possible idea I found was, "Speech is silver but silence is gold" maybe you have a better idea, if so let me know.

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In Russian the second part of this saying is rather common (I never heard it with part about speech though):
Молчание - золото.

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6. Ask me no questions and I'll tell you know lies.

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I can't think of Russian equivalent of this proverb. But it reminded me another one: Не говорите, что мне делать и я не скажу, куда вам идти. / Don't tell me what to do and I shall not tell you where you should go. (Typical Russian insult: "Go to #$%&#"). :)

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8. Cold hands warm heart

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"Cold hands" was a mistake made recently by some Russian commie politican, he made complete fool of himself. :mosking: The original saying belongs to Felix Dzerzhinsky, the founder of Bolshevik secret police, VCK: "VCK officer should have warm hart, cool mind and clear hands." / У чекиста должны быть горячее сердце, холодная голова и чистые руки.

З.Ы. BTW, it-ogo, I met the word 'to bite' applied to a dog endless times in English, how do you say 'укусила' otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Basil77

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

1. For this one I am trying to replace the title of "Silent Treatment" so a possible idea I found was, "Speech is silver but silence is gold" maybe you have a better idea, if so let me know.

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In Russian the second part of this saying is rather common (I never heard it with part about speech though):
Молчание - золото.

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The original Russian saying is:
"Слово - серебро, молчание - золото." A word is silver, but silence is gold.

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Originally Posted by it-ogo

P.S. I wonder if the word "bite" is applicable to the dog in English? Кажется, это эквивалент "ужалить".

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Just about two days ago I've seen the movie "Wolf" (with Jack Nicholson whose character was bitten by a wolf and became a wolf himself) with original English audio. The word "bite" was the only word applied to the wolf.

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous - Глупые собаки опасны (literal translation). I think there's a directly opposite Russian proverb "A dog that barks do not bites".

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Well, my native language is neither English nor Russian, but I'm sure I've seen an English version of this proverb somewhere. It's: "Barking dogs, seldom bite."
What's the Russian version? And who copied who?

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

3. A good face is a letter of recommendation - it's not Russian. There's a Russian proverb "Встречают по одежке, а провожают по уму" - a rough translation is "Greeting you people judge you by your clothes, and saying goodbye they judge you by your mind".

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I'm not sure that these two sayings match each other.

The English one "A good face is a letter of recommendation" seems to mean that your appearance makes a lot for your future or forthcoming deal. Maybe it is close to another English saying "A good beginning is half the battle".

While the Russian one "По одежке встречают, а провожают по уму" (You will be welcomed according to your clothes, but goodbye will be said according to what you really are) means: However good you are looking it will help you only in the very beginning, at the end people anyway will realize who you really are.

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

8. Cold hands warm heart - Холодная голова, горячее средце (Cold head, hot heart) :D A popular phrase from Soviet propaganda was "A KGB agent must have cold head, hot heart and clean hands". ;)

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Having searching the web (wiktionary, telegraph) I've found that the English saying means:
A cool, reserved exterior may hide a kind heart.
This has nothing in common with Russian "KGB" sayings which in turn means: That You should be very passionate and fiery in willing to do something but the way you do it should be driven only by clear mind (not obsessed by the passion) and very deliberated decisions.

To sum up: Only the first saying can be tracked as having Russian roots while other ten (2-11) are even treated by Russians in other ways.

Everyone as always you ROCK... I am going to print these out and go over them with my daughter this afternoon and will get back with questions/comments.

If you come up with more, or anyone else still wants to post, please GO AHEAD! This thread is still OPEN!!

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

...5. All truths are not to be told - I can't think of any equivalent at the moment.

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Может быть: иногда лучше промолчать - sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shot?

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

2. A bargain is a bargain

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Actually we have the same saying "уговор есть уговор".

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

3. A good face is a letter of recommendation

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We have two quite opposite sayings.
Первое впечатление - самое верное. First impression is the most reliable. (For those who need to present themselves).
Первое впечатление обманчиво. First impression never reveal the truth. (For those who need to judge those who are presenting themselves)

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

4. Actions speak louder than words

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О человеке судят по делам, а не по словам. A man is judged by his actions, and not by words.
(Frequently it is shortened to "A man is judged by his actions".)

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

5. All truths are not to be told

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Не стоит открывать все карты. Do not show all your playing cards. (Though I'm not sure that the meaning is equal).

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Originally Posted by Lampada

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

...5. All truths are not to be told - I can't think of any equivalent at the moment.

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Может быть: иногда лучше промолчать - sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shot?

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This would be the same as "silence is gold" but it is already in the list.

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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What is the original meaning of this one? The Russian version proposed above means that different people have different tastes.

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous

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В тихом омуте черти водятся. Still deep water hides devils (or deuces).

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

11. While there is life there is hope

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I've tried to rewrite the above version shorter.
Надежда умирает последней. Hope is (always) the last to die.

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Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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What is the original meaning of this one? The Russian version proposed above means that different people have different tastes.

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"Jedem das seine".

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Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

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Originally Posted by rockzmom

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous

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В тихом омуте черти водятся. Still deep water hides devils (or deuces).

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"В тихом омуте черти водятся" implies that people who seem calm, boring or even mousy can harbour dark secrets or have strong passions under their deceptively quiet exterior. I don't think it has anything to do with the English proverb.

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Originally Posted by Misha Tal

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

9. Dumb dogs are dangerous - Глупые собаки опасны (literal translation). I think there's a directly opposite Russian proverb "A dog that barks do not bites".

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Well, my native language is neither English nor Russian, but I'm sure I've seen an English version of this proverb somewhere. It's: "Barking dogs, seldom bite."
What's the Russian version? And who copied who?

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of a person: "his bark is worse than his bite" (i.e. he may seem intimidating, but he is nothing to be afraid of). A synonymous phrase would be "he's all mouth" (British English, typically with a cockney accent... "HE'S AWL MAAAUFFF")