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Russians have a reputation (according to several articles and books I've read!)for being very friendly to people they know yet surly and awkward with those they don't. Is this true? Has the 'service with a smile' concept been adopted? What difference have American style food outlets had on the way customers are dealt with?
Wow, I've never heard about this
Separate the two questions, as they are distinct, if obviously related.
First is the question of behaviour towards strangers or towards new acquaintances.
Second is behaviour towards customers/clients in service situations.
As to that latter question, I'd definitely say there's a big difference between Russia and Britain. I've visited about 25 countries in total (mostly in Europe) and the service, on average, was much surlier in Russia than anywhere else. But there's no bad will, it's just a lack of responsiveness.
This is rather a difficult point to explain without oversimplifying or stereotyping or whatever. Plus I suspect it's changing, although I'm not really sure.
One thing I can mention is that if you visit the same shop multiple times, the dyevushka often does get a bit more friendly eventually.
It depends. I think, you will be confused when make your first touch for Russian reality. Moscow is not only capital of Russia; also, it is a giant node of Russian transport system and most overpopulated city of Russia. Don't be surprised if cop in the street check your documents. Mine first feelings of Moscow were a black/white world with dirty and ruined buildings. Too many of Russian people are used to be careful and live "с фигой в кармане"* but you will be amazing of this people when you get closer with them.Quote:
Is this true?
I recommend you St.Peterburg for first visit. There are really great architecture and very affable people.
* - I even don't know English expression.
Just about how rude should I be towards everyone on this forum for people to finally understand that WE ARE RUDE. Have you got a banana in your ear or what? And what the hell is 'service with a smile'? Is it when they grin at you like retards while serving you a BigMac or something? Good show we don't have this in Russia yet. I hate it when they do it abroad - why can't those people understand I do not wish to inspect their fillings and bridgeworks. I go to cafes to eat but they will do everything to give me an indigestion. If the food is good they will frighten me with their decaying teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
I'm with Vendingmachine, though I'll avoid the sacrasm :)
Initially I was quite taken aback by the surlyness [sic?] of Russians in service industries, such as hotels and so on, but it didn't take long before I started to appreciate the honesty of it.
I mean, we all know that the lass serving us doesn't really give a damn 'how we are doing today', all she cares about is getting home to see her boyfriend when her shift is finished, or whatever, so why should we expect her to pretend that she does? I don't think that's about rudeness, I think it's a case of doing her job correctly without attaching all that yank-style BS bonhomie we are plagued with in this country and elsewhere.
Maybe that's just because I'm fairly surly myself.
No, I meant another thing. You can really suffer rude from some category of people. Some people really like to hurt you. They do this not because they hate you but because they like it. Ask Russians about "Швейцар".Quote:
I mean, we all know that the lass serving us doesn't really give a damn 'how we are doing today'...
It is not a problem for me solve any question with Russians (especially with girls :D). One little laugh or joke for them can tell much more then any menace.
Like I said, we're bloody-minded.Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Dunno what you're driving at here. What is so special about щвейцары? Note that I don't come in contact with many, I kick doors open myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
If you are Russian you know what I meant. “щвейцар” is not only who open the door. I would make special chapter in psychology for this kind of people. The main features of them are uneducated, greedy man who has a little power over you. The best example is Jim Carrey as a cable guy.Quote:
What is so special about щвейцары? Note that I don't come in contact with many, I kick doors open myself.
Nope, I dunno what you were trying to say. But like I said before, I don't rub shoulders with швейцары on a daily basis so I wouldn't know. What kind of power does a швейцар have? If you're trying to say he may refuse to let you in, well, that's what he's there for - to welcome respectable patrons and guests in and kick out potential trouble makers. First line of defence, innit? And by the way, who the Friar Tuck in 'ell is Jim Carrey?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Jim Carrey is an unfunny American comedic actor. I've seen the movie The Cable Guy, and I have no idea what it has to do with щвейцары. Perhaps BETEP would like to explain?
Yeah, the service girls in Russia are rude as hell. And I appreciate it, dammit. If they don't fake smile at me I don't have to fake smile back at them.
It’s because you are kidding, or you are not Russian. I found some lines about it.Quote:
Nope, I dunno what you were trying to say.
Иерархия приводит и к тому, что начинается с одной стороны - невероятный страх перед высшими ("Смерть чиновника" А.П.Чехова), с другой - гонения на занимающих более низкое положение, хладнокровная жестокость к ним ("Острова и капитаны" Владислава Крапивина). Такие гонения на более низких по статусу встречаются, к сожалению, очень часто. Одна из самых уродливых форм таких гонений - "синдром швейцара", когда человек, не имея особого образования, уровня и квалификации, но зато имея самую минимальную власть, пользуется этой властью на полную катушку. Именно по этому такое отвращение возникает к разнообразным службам охраны и т.д. - потому что они укомплектованы людьми, способными принести большой вред, несмотря на то, что в общем-то являются ничтожествами. Близки к этому и многие формы злоупотребления властью без всяких соображений пользы, когда желание только одно - удовлетворить собственное чувство власти.
Those italic lines below are the words of Борис Гребенщиков ("Огонек" 1990 год). He is saying about a trip to the New York.
Я дико боялся. Когда ехал и первое время там. Потом расслабился. потому что ничего страшного со мной не происходило. У нас же у всех комплекс швейцара. У всех советских людей. Ты все время ждешь, что кто-то тебя постукает сзади по плечу: "А вы что здесь делаете? Пройдемте!" И выгонят. Это у нас в крови. В этом сущность великого эксперимента: взять страну и из нормальных людей сделать некую социалистическую общность - советский народ, в котором каждого в любую минуту можно откуда угодно погнать, и он примет это как должное.
Швейцар is only particular case. He is a symbol of this phenomenon or syndrome.Quote:
I don't rub shoulders with швейцары…
What kind of line was protected by Шариков?Quote:
First line of defence, innit?
The cable guy has a little power over guy named Steven and wants to be his friend by all means. Throw away any sentiments and look to this cable guy from another side. He can do something and he can do nothing. What would you do if somebody claims some money over the cost (like a tip)? I think you will go to another “somebody”. But, situation is you do not have another “somebody” as a result he has a little power.Quote:
I've seen the movie The Cable Guy, and I have no idea what it has to do with щвейцары.
Take a look by the “cable gay” eyes. The man, who has a fix salary and doesn’t have any reason and possibility to grow, is full of hate. His clients can only disturb his mind silence and the little power over you is only one real thing he has.
I'm sorry, but if you think that a Russian person should immidiately understand your literary allusions, otherwise he isn't Russian, you're very much mistaken. I don't read much, I had now idea what you were talking about (I don't even now, to be frank, because if you're thinking what I'm thinking I don't understand what it has to do with being or not being Russian).Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I don't think highly of Grebenshikov, and I don't know his works to quote from. I had absolutely no idea what you were talking about and that it was a quote from Grebenshikov. And I bet few other Russians would've guessed. Also, reading this quote now, I think that no matter how screwed up Grebenshikov is, it gives him absolutely no right to extrapolate his screwedupness (Gawd, how did I think this one up?) onto others - why doesn't he bloody speak for himself?Quote:
Those italic lines below are the words of Борис Гребенщиков ("Огонек" 1990 год). He is saying about a trip to the New York.
Я дико боялся. Когда ехал и первое время там. Потом расслабился. потому что ничего страшного со мной не происходило. У нас же у всех комплекс швейцара. У всех советских людей. Ты все время ждешь, что кто-то тебя постукает сзади по плечу: "А вы что здесь делаете? Пройдемте!" И выгонят. Это у нас в крови. В этом сущность великого эксперимента: взять страну и из нормальных людей сделать некую социалистическую общность - советский народ, в котором каждого в любую минуту можно откуда угодно погнать, и он примет это как должное.
Швейцар is only particular case. He is a symbol of this phenomenon or syndrome.[/quote:14txs6bo]Quote:
[quote:14txs6bo]I don't rub shoulders with швейцары…
А вы, батенька, психиатр?
What kind of line was protected by Шариков?[/quote:14txs6bo]Quote:
[quote:14txs6bo]First line of defence, innit?
What's Bulgakov got to do with it?
Boy, I opened a can of worms there didn't I? I haven't got a banana in my ear. Sorry but I'm a new member and didn't realise this had all been discussed before. It seems as though many/some Russians are delighted to be thought of as rude by others. I too am not impressed by the American 'have a nice day' statement but if you are served by someone who smiles it is surely preferable to be being greeted with a scowl?
What happens when Russians live outside their country. Do they still maintain their 'attitude'?
I grew up in the US, and I don't think it's preferable to be greeted with a fake smile. I mean, I guess I'd rather someone didn't arbitrarily give me the Evil Glare of Death for no reason, but if some service employee is having a cruddy day, I don't expect them to pretend they looooove me. What's the point? It doesn't make the food taste any better or the mail get delivered more quickly. Go ahead and be scowly, service employees. I worked in a restaurant. I know it blows.
I think you're getting the false impression, BJ, that all Russian service employees are unpleasant all the time. There are plenty of them who smile or act friendly. It's just that they don't seem to do it for no reason as often as Americans. Most of the time when I got friendly service it's because the employee was just joking around with coworkers, or was flirting with me, or just seemed to be having a good day, or whatever. Natural happiness instead of just Service with a Smile. Basically, actually showing what they feel instead of running around like a Stepford Wife all day.
Anyway, an artificial smile looks like nothing so much as a teeth baring to me, and that's just unnerving.
Ey up, BJ. I, like you, like to read. Tell me, BJ, do you work at a coal mine? Do you keep pigeons? How can I best be rude to you? Should I swear? No. Oh yes, I know just the thing to say to you, your being a tyke and all: Lancashire is much better than Yorkshire. Red Rose rocks, White Rose sucks.
But I'm absolutely sure that any Russian person knows what is up in his country.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I don't think highly of Гребеньщиков too. However, IMHO, his main thought was extremely correct. Set your eyes on the date of the interview. It was 1990 year. In a year Russians will be gone away from the Baltic, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia, ... The centuries old empire was ruined over some years.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Take a look for the some driver's traditions. It's happened several times per a year in USA. Some car driver goes out from his car to the policeman without a permit. How do you think which country those drivers come from?
IMHO, those facts, at long last, have one root - addiction to hierarchy, exiguous choice and insignificant feedback.
I see you are writer, not a reader. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
May be you also think that Гоголь slandered Russia by "Ревизор"?Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
You are not right.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
You did not get the thing. The most of Russians are very opened and pleasant people but they are contrasted with other Russians. The most of Russians don't like and even afraid to converse with officials, cops, and other power-handled persons. I'm sure all described by me "nightmares" are in your country too but situation aided to grow up them in Russia. To understand this one you should know too much. I saw several stories by BBC about Russia and I know that we look at the same thing but our perceptions are different. I know that all that BBC told was right but also I know many of BBC didn’t talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
The part of problem is covered here. Do you want a smile from a men/woman whose month salary equals a cost of full car tank of petrol in Europe? You could meet even an ex-professor as a seller in a marketplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
I agree with Линдзи when he said: "I think you're getting the false impression, BJ, that all Russian service employees are unpleasant all the time".
Am I supposed to see the world around me through your eyes? We're all different though we obviously share or used to share one country. I see things differently and so do millions of others, you can't possibly speak for everyone so do us a favour, mate, knock it off, all right?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I live in St Petersburg, I'm not particularly interested in what goes on in other parts of the country, let alone the ex republics. I simply don't know and frankly, don't wish to know. Again, you were alluding to his works I had never read. How was I to know? Maybe some other smart c@@@ has written something different, so what? Am I to be aware of everything that's being written/talked about?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Search me. Iceland perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
What facts? Well, have it your own way, you're obviously the kind of person who always knows best.Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
OMG, what's this got to do with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I don't quite agree with that, though there are certainly some (maybe even a lot) who don't give a damn, there are also those who are really sincere and caring, just because they love people in general and think that each customer deserves to be treated with care and attention. But I don't consider a smile a necessary attribute of polite service, for me it has more to do with the voice intonation and the general expression on their face. Personally, I'm very sensitive to rudeness (I mean real rudeness, not mere surliness), when a salesperson or an official is being rude to me I'm afraid to ask another question and will try to avoid the interaction with this person the next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
The fact that she is waiting for a date with her boyfriend or for some other pleasant event can even boost her willingness to be polite and nice (depends on the person of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
Btw, when I've been to Europe I haven't noticed much difference in politeness of service people there and in Russia (before that I thought there was a big difference).
Which is correct. In Europe, it is next to impossible to fire a cashier (say) no matter what, and the job is not all that fantastic, so if the guy is in a bad mood, that's it. The shittier the job, the grimmer they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendy
Not so in the states. There anybody can often be fired without any reason whatsoever, and there are just too many guys in the streets only too willing to replace you, because any pay is better than the joke called "welfare".
Vending machine - your teasing might have worked if I had any affiliation to Yorkshire - I don't - I just happen to live there at the moment. Are tykes, coalmines and pigeons all you know about Yorkshire? Tell me if you can, is there any difference in the way Russian men treat women compared to English men?
Just see something through your eyes. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Did you mean divide? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I speak from me and about things I have seen through my eyes. It was mine f****n foreigner's HO.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Wow!!! What's up? Was the heaven fallen to the land? You just confirmed words of Гребеньщиков. Something happened and it is not your business. It is so comfortable position.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
The words of Гребеньщиков are only a drop in a sea of other words I heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Of course I am! I even know who will be the next president of Russia. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
A student at Dotheboyshall? I'm sorry, I ought to have realised.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
I know about the beautiful city of York, its magnificent cathedral, the Jorvik Viking Center, the Yorkshire wolds, Ilkla Moor Baat 'At, Mr 'Erriet, Tristin and Siegfried Farnen, ee by gum, Yorkshire bitter, jam butties, put t'wood in t'ole and beautiful accents where they drop their jaws to the floor and keep them fixed in that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
Better ask women, I suppose, but I would tend to think that we are less effeminate. Anyway, there's one rule that has always worked for me - treat ladies as if they were slags and treat slags as if they were ladies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
Yes, sure. And you would care. Bollocks. You know, there are kiddies out there in Africa starving, dying of AIDS, malaria, the lot. Do you care about them? I bet you do. Many people do, but that's not the same thing, know what I mean? What do we do about it? What does anybody do about it and similar things? Sweet f@@@ all. And why? Because that's the way life is. If I was to care about everything which goes on in the world I would've died 45 years ago of a broken heart and so would have everyone, mistah nurse f@@@@ nightingale... And this Grebyonshikov twat is a shrewd pragmatist, he sells his crap to people like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
You know, BETEP, you seem to belong to that breed of people who won't accept that there can be different opinions about the same thing. But that's ok by me - enjoy the ignore.
i don't know what to make of you Vending Machine. You're funny. Is it intentional?? I'm not a student by the way. You're right about having to get on with life. if we really did feel concerned about the world's problems then we should individually do something. Of course some people do and I salute them for it but I merely read the newspaper and feel sympathy for those less fortunate than me and envy for those who are more fortunate BUT I don't beat myself up about it either way. You only have one life - live it the best way you can for yourself but be sensitive to the needs of others. Interesting attitude towards women. I hope someone else will have something to say on that.
It's so funny. You tried to beat my words and now you throw it in my face.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Oh god!!! It's so typical! If others have a problem they say every time that it's still better than in Russia. You shift the blame to the Africa. Good shot!Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I didn't talk about Africa. I told about your country, born in the USSR. Where is your responsibility limit? May be in Petersburg only, or in the street you live, or inside the home door. What I have to take away from you to wake you up?
We have a lot of problems inside country and I don't stay aside. Here you are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I see, it's not a world problem but should you individually do something if somebody pisses at your door?Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
Oh, BETEP, you've really made my day, I laughed like drains reading your most recent post.
Typical? Typical of what? Typical of who? What problem? What is better than in Russia? A problem is better? What blame? Who am I blaming? I wasn't blaming anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Are you capable of abstract thinking? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I knew it. Where exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I wouldn't have anything to do with what goes on inside doors. Death watch beetles aren't really my scene. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Take? Are you a thief?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
You mean you're a trouble maker?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
I understand that this is none of my business, but why would anyone pee on your doorstep? Do you live in a toilet?Quote:
Originally Posted by BETEP
Also, what you don't realise, if the poor girl who serves probably works about 26 hours a day.
When I was lived in Russia I went to a caf
Vending Machine is actually a Britisher from Sheffield masquerading as a Russian.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ
Why are you reviving two year-old threads?
Memories scotcher. Memories.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
*sings*
MEMORIES. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. MEMORIES, IN MY MIND. OOOOOOOOOOOO. MEMORIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIES
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
IN MY MIND FROM LOOOONG AGO
OH
OH
OH
OOH
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!
..............MEMORIES!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
ah...TATY is waxing poetic.
:wink:
what do you mean by 'waxing'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Shut the copulate up. :D
Edit: Just commenting on TATY's singing. :D