Thread: Obama is visiting sweden 04/09-13 - 06/09-13

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

I am interested in some insights about current political situation in Sweden. Do many citizen support the government? Are there good alternatives?
Being a big fan of Karlsson-on-the-roof, I care about Sweden a lot.

Yeah you asked about that before, didn't you?

Sweden has undergone a massive political change over the last 20 years. In the past it was a welfare state, jobs for everyone and a mixed housing markets where you could either rent a good publically owned flat, or buy a house. Lots of large state owned companies, along with international companies selling steel, wood, technology and cars... Most people were social democrats and preferred a mix of capitalism socialism. Anti-imperialism was the big fashionable topic for a few decades, peaking with Olof Palme.

However in the 1990s the social democracy approach lost favour and media changed drastically to supporting economic and poltical liberalism in the 1990s. So almost everything that the state owned was sold out, welfare benefits were tightened up to the level that they are not better than anywhere else the Northern part of the EU. It's hard to get a job for young people with no experience.

Since the mid 1980s there has been mass immigration of refugees; per capita more than anywhere else in Europe, I think. So there is now a very marked split between the original population (with Northern looks) and people with African and Middle Eastern looks. Unfortunately Sweden (which was isolated and has a homogenous culture) is hard to integrate into, for people with such different background and looks. Many of them can't find jobs and are living off benefits. This causes huge resentment for everyone involved. Immigrants from other European countries quickly blend in on the other hand.

Also; in the last 15 years or so, Sweden has become very pro radical social ideas like homosexuality and feminism. You cannot open a paper without reading stories of this. Many people like me think these questions are blown out of all proporitions and they have replaced anti-imperialism and multiculturalism as media's favourite topics to promote. Sweden's media is very one-sided, due to being a small country / language. If you want a different opinion you have to turn to media in some other country / language or go online.

Citizens support the government up to a point. Traditionally the trust in government is very high, and actually, they are not corrupt. Sweden is brutally Big Brother esque in the way that the state knows EVERYTHING about you. People have such high trust in the state though that they just don't mind it (apart from me, I hate it...)

There is almost no economic privacy in Sweden and media can easily confirm that politicians live like average people and could not/would not engage in corruption. So corruption is not an issue. However there is a big split between regular people and politicians on immigration. It's easily the most controversial question. Very few people really want it on the scales at which it happens, yet it continues year after year. Many people become anti-government on account of this question.

People are not ready to join NATO, but the shift away from genuine neutrality, towards the USA agenda has been quite obvious, again since the 90s.
The views on this shifted massively after TV commercialised in the 1990s.

Because media is so one sided in reporting on issues - you never read the alternative view, just the "official" view, a lot of the real debate and serious journalism takes place online, on various special sites and in a sort of national forum.

Sweden was quite unique for most of the 20th century. In the era in which Astrid Lindgren who you like was active (she was a flaming social democrat by the way - very passionate). However this era is probably disappearing, and Sweden will shortly be nothing but a generic EU country in the cold outskirts of Northern Europe...

Originally Posted by Hanna

Yeah you asked about that before, didn't you?

Sweden has undergone a massive political change over the last 20 years. In the past it was a welfare state, jobs for everyone and a mixed housing markets where you could either rent a good publically owned flat, or buy a house. Lots of large state owned companies, along with international companies selling steel, wood, technology and cars... Most people were social democrats and preferred a mix of capitalism socialism. Anti-imperialism was the big fashionable topic for a few decades, peaking with Olof Palme.

However in the 1990s the social democracy approach lost favour and media changed drastically to supporting economic and poltical liberalism in the 1990s. So almost everything that the state owned was sold out, welfare benefits were tightened up to the level that they are not better than anywhere else the Northern part of the EU. It's hard to get a job for young people with no experience.

Since the mid 1980s there has been mass immigration of refugees; per capita more than anywhere else in Europe, I think. So there is now a very marked split between the original population (with Northern looks) and people with African and Middle Eastern looks. Unfortunately Sweden (which was isolated and has a homogenous culture) is hard to integrate into, for people with such different background and looks. Many of them can't find jobs and are living off benefits. This causes huge resentment for everyone involved. Immigrants from other European countries quickly blend in on the other hand.

Also; in the last 15 years or so, Sweden has become very pro radical social ideas like homosexuality and feminism. You cannot open a paper without reading stories of this. Many people like me think these questions are blown out of all proporitions and they have replaced anti-imperialism and multiculturalism as media's favourite topics to promote. Sweden's media is very one-sided, due to being a small country / language. If you want a different opinion you have to turn to media in some other country / language or go online.

Citizens support the government up to a point. Traditionally the trust in government is very high, and actually, they are not corrupt. Sweden is brutally Big Brother esque in the way that the state knows EVERYTHING about you. People have such high trust in the state though that they just don't mind it (apart from me, I hate it...)

There is almost no economic privacy in Sweden and media can easily confirm that politicians live like average people and could not/would not engage in corruption. So corruption is not an issue. However there is a big split between regular people and politicians on immigration. It's easily the most controversial question. Very few people really want it on the scales at which it happens, yet it continues year after year. Many people become anti-government on account of this question.

People are not ready to join NATO, but the shift away from genuine neutrality, towards the USA agenda has been quite obvious, again since the 90s.
The views on this shifted massively after TV commercialised in the 1990s.

Because media is so one sided in reporting on issues - you never read the alternative view, just the "official" view, a lot of the real debate and serious journalism takes place online, on various special sites and in a sort of national forum.

Sweden was quite unique for most of the 20th century. In the era in which Astrid Lindgren who you like was active (she was a flaming social democrat by the way - very passionate). However this era is probably disappearing, and Sweden will shortly be nothing but a generic EU country in the cold outskirts of Northern Europe...

LOL! Funny post. All of that is what social democracy is - socialism with 'capitalist' elements except it's not capitalism, per se. It's crony capitalism. How is it capitalism when the media is practically a monopoly. They are not Swedish and the PM is not Swedish, either, really. Sweden has been taking away people's rights and trying to join other Western countries in administering a police state. Besides multiculturalism and 'liberalist' removal of rights, the country is also going into the drain in other ways. The most recent explosion of granting asylum to Syrian refugees is this continued destruction of the state. They will do like the rest and just print more money (to pay for things). From what I've read of Swedes, they are as deliriously inept and clueless as many Americans and other Westerners. As long as they are told, 'the economy is okay', they ignore all the problems. It is what I consider the epitome of stupidity. (Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by 14Russian

LOL! Funny post. All of that is what social democracy is - socialism with 'capitalist' elements except it's not capitalism, per se. It's crony capitalism. How is it capitalism when the media is practically a monopoly. They are not Swedish and the PM is not Swedish, either, really. Sweden has been taking away people's rights and trying to join other Western countries in administering a police state. Besides multiculturalism and 'liberalist' removal of rights, the country is also going into the drain in other ways. The most recent explosion of granting asylum to Syrian refugees is this continued destruction of the state. They will do like the rest and just print more money (to pay for things). From what I've read of Swedes, they are as deliriously inept and clueless as many Americans and other Westerners. As long as they are told, 'the economy is okay', they ignore all the problems. It is what I consider the epitome of stupidity. (Deleted. L.)

Once again you leave me completely perplexed as to what ideology you actually support.
I don't see any consistency at all. All I can detect is some extremely strong nationalistic vibes (anti-immigration). If you are going to deliver strong diatribes like this you should be aware that they make no sense at all unless you explain what national or ideological background you have. As it is, it just seems like you despise everyone, particularly immigrants..

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Thanks, Hanna, for your sad story. I never imagined that USSR's fate could influence so much a capitalist state.
As I understand there was no dramatic change in standards of living, so you "had suffered" more ideologically than physically.

Yes, I took the opportunity to get all my feelings about this off my chest, didn't I ! What a rant! Hope some of it was of interest...

As for the demise of the USSR:
Yes - it sent waves outside it's own borders, and even Eastern Europe. Across the developing world and to people with leftist sympathies in Europe and America.

I am fascinated and shocked by what everyone in the USSR area went through in the 90s. It must have been like the rug being pulled from right under your feet and being pushed from a rather elevated position into the gutter! Not to mention the economic hardship and day-to-day struggle everyone went through. Adding the slack from seeing the country's accomplishments being dragged in the mud and factories that were supposedly built for the people by the people being auctioned off to oligarchs and foreigners. And the older generation that had believed in the ideology discovering that they spent 70 years working towards something that was then just stamped on... and living on a dirt poor pension after they spent their lives trying to build communism.

But apart from all that, the USSR left a power vacuum in large parts of the world. It left an ideological vacuum, a military vacuum and an economic vacuum. Countries like the USA became smug and thought it had the right and ability to dictate how every single country in the world should be run. As we've seen from one war leading into the next for the last two decades.

China has not stepped into the super power vacancy, and Russia is not able to at the moment. USA is on the way to either self destruct economically, or became a right wing dictatorship, or both.
It's scary times we live in. One thing I liked with the USSR was that it's foreign policy was grounded on principle/ideology. You could guess what the reactions would be. Whereas with the USA and China it completely lacks any principle - all about short term economics and power.