Thread: New Pope

Since nobody else is starting this thread I might as well do it. As many of you know Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger became the new pope yesterday after an extremely quick conclave. He

I'm not catholic, but my parents are... I don't think Catholics need another conservative pope just based on the fact that people are getting fed up with it... I don't know a single person out on their own my age (26) or younger that is still a "practicing" (ie. goes to church every Sunday) Catholic. After being forced to go to church every week (or you would go to hell if you missed ONE WEEK), everyone embraces their freedom by not ever going to church except maybe on the holidays, or when they come home for the weekend.
The times are changing so much, that the Catholic Church isn't going to exist much longer unless they start being a little more lenient. Nobody wants to participate in a religion where it's technically immoral to do anything most would consider even slightly fun. The first thing the new pope announced was that he was against gays, premarital sex, and rock & roll.
That being said, I'm not an atheist, I'm just not participating in any particular religion at the moment...
-Fantom

ps- The one good thing about Catholicism is that you can technically lead a life of sin, and take confession on your deathbed, and all your sins are forgiven. If you've been baptised, that is. "Original" sin cannot be forgiven in any other way...

Originally Posted by fantom605

ps- The one good thing about Catholicism is that you can technically lead a life of sin, and take confession on your deathbed, and all your sins are forgiven. If you've been baptised, that is. "Original" sin cannot be forgiven in any other way...

What if they're wrong about that?


This came out of “The Age”. Sorry I had to paste but you have to register for the link......Some things never change!



Pope 'shelved' sex abuse claims
April 20, 2005 - 11:45AM
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A former trainee priest who has accused the founder of an influential Catholic order of sexual abuse said today that new Pope Benedict XVI deliberately shelved a probe into his claims for six years.
Jose Barba is one of eight ex-members of the Rome-based Legion of Christ, most of them Mexicans, who accuse the order's founder, Marcial Maciel, of sexually abusing them from the 1940s through the 1960s.
The allegations are too old to be investigated under criminal law but the nine brought a suit against Maciel, 84, under the Vatican's canonical law in 1998.
The case was filed at the Church's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who was elected Pope Benedict XVI today.
Barba, spokesman for the accusers, says the claims were hushed up because Maciel and his ultra-conservative order were close to Pope John Paul II.
"The question is: Was Cardinal Ratzinger totally and solely responsible? I think that to a great extent he was because it was his department," said Barba, now 68 and a professor of Latin American studies at Mexico City's ITAM university.
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Maciel stepped down as leader of the Legion of Christ, citing his age, a month after the Vatican finally announced last December it would take up the abuse allegations.
Barba alleged that the Church's willingness to probe the issue could have been an attempt by Ratzinger to clean up the matter to improve his chances of becoming pope.
"It would have been very embarrassing for the cardinal to turn up at the conclave with the reputation of someone who had covered up a scandal," the Mexican said

Originally Posted by DDT

What if they're wrong about that?

Remember, though, I said I didn't believe in it (or anything to do with the Catholic faith). That's just something that they claim, maybe as a consolation prize for trying to live under their rules...

That article you put up didn't surprise me one bit, there have been SO many Catholic priests charged for allegedly molesting young boys, and most likely SO many more that were covered up. I mean, when you force someone into a lifetime of celibacy, and not even allow them to get married and have "legal" sex, the average human is going to flip out after a while. I know I would.
-Fantom

Beliving in religion, can't be the point of religion. It certainly seems so to many people......When they stand on Piazza San Pietro screaming, idolizing the pope, somehow the frase "Thou shall not have any other gods" always come to mind.(I don't know the correct english for it)

But then again, perhaps many people need this physical idolisation for their faith.

That article you put up didn't surprise me one bit, there have been SO many Catholic priests charged for allegedly molesting young boys, and most likely SO many more that were covered up. I mean, when you force someone into a lifetime of celibacy, and not even allow them to get married and have "legal" sex, the average human is going to flip out after a while. I know I would.

Sex, and agression, some of the most basic human drives...not seldomly in combination!

First Commandment: "I am the one true God, thou shalt not have any Gods before me"
(Can we have any AFTER the one true God?)

That's a good point, Zhenya, I never really thought about it. On one hand, it's like worshiping a false idol that is not God, but on the other hand, it's something that "represents" God, and you're right, most people need something physical to wrap their mind around the whole religion thing.
-Fantom

O.K. I'm finally fed up with this.

John Paul II's somewhat obsulete beliefs

That's funny - I didn't know that common sense can become obsolete. Though it can go out of style, apparently.... Denying oneself harmful things doesn't seem terribly backwards to me. Although I personally don't have anything against some good rock 'n roll - where did he say that, anyway?

Beliving in religion, can't be the point of religion.

It's not. The point of any well-founded religion is finding balance and the truth. That is, attempting to be balanced in everything one does and trying to find and understand fundamental truths. Trying to do what's right - which entails searching for the truth. The ideas of the Asian yin-yang, the Slavic черный vs. белый, the Christian "moderation in all things" are all related. Getting stinking drunk and having sex like a rabbit just isn't balanced. That's how I see it. Though perhaps I'm not your "typical" Catholic.

...there have been SO many Catholic priests charged for allegedly molesting young boys, and most likely SO many more that were covered up.

Hmm...and yet you never ever hear about the thousands who never do such things. You know why? Because for the most part, the good ones stay quiet and just keep doin' their job. No priest is "forced" into celibacy. If a guy is studying in a seminary and doesn't know what he's in for, he's a complete idiot. And they don't "flip out" - I don't know a single person who's ever died of lack of sex.

The one good thing about Catholicism is that you can technically lead a life of sin, and take confession on your deathbed, and all your sins are forgiven.

No you can't. The word is "repent." If someone has led a horribly sinful life, says confession on his deathbead because he thinks he ought to "just in case", he's got the wrong idea. The sacrament is rendered invalid if it's not genuine. It's not some sort of blind "magic".

How do you get a Nun pregnant?? Dress her up like an alter boy.

Young monk came to monastery and got his first duty - to help other monks to copy ancient scriptures. Doing that, he noticed, that monks make copies not of originals, but of other copies, which were made before. He asked abbot: "Why do they do so? Somebody can make mistake that will be never corrected!". "I don't know, my son"- abbot replied - "we have been doing it for centuries... but you may be right..."- and he went down to the basement, where most ancient writings were stored. He was there more than hour, and young monk began to worry. He went to the basement and saw abbot there. Abbot cried and knocked his head against the wall. "What's happened, Padre?" - monk asked. Abbot replied through crying: "C-e-l-e-b-r-a-t-e! The word was celebrate, not celibate!"

Originally Posted by Zhenya

...When they stand on Piazza San Pietro screaming, idolizing the pope, somehow the frase "Thou shall not have any other gods" always come to mind..

Good point.

Originally Posted by Moryachka

...there have been SO many Catholic priests charged for allegedly molesting young boys, and most likely SO many more that were covered up.

Hmm...and yet you never ever hear about the thousands who never do such things. .

But here is the point. We all know that sicko's can be found about anywhere, but the Priesthood has most obviously, waaaaaaaaay more than it's share. And even then, to make matters worse there are all the cover-ups.

Yes, genetically, there is hardly a stronger drive than to assure that ones' genes are beeing "passed on". One must also keep in mind that the celibacy did not appear untill around year 1000! (+-)
And the way in which they see the woman, and the woman body as something bad (naturally projecting their own desires) is very strange aswell.

Originally Posted by Moryachka

O.K. I'm finally fed up with this.

John Paul II's somewhat obsulete beliefs

That's funny - I didn't know that common sense can become obsolete. Though it can go out of style, apparently.... Denying oneself harmful things doesn't seem terribly backwards to me. Although I personally don't have anything against some good rock 'n roll - where did he say that, anyway?

Common sense eh? This was an extremely intersting definition of common sense and I sincerely hope that you simply don

Yes, why is only having sex to conceive a child common sense? Doesn't that show how brainwashed you are by the Catholic church that you can't objectively look at what it teaches.
Islam is the strictest religion, and even they allow condoms.

Brainwashed? Not I, but I am sure that pee-pee's are very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad!

DDT, I read your post regarding Marcial Masiel, which is indeed a scandal in Mexico, and just for laughs, we have a joke about the members of the Legion of Christ, who are quite affluent, so we call them the "Millionaires of Christ".

Denying oneself harmful things doesn't seem terribly backwards to me. Although I personally don't have anything against some good rock 'n roll - where did he say that, anyway?

Sex is a harmful thing? Maybe just meaningless sex with no caution and many partners. But having sex regularly has been shown to increase one's health. He said the Rock and Roll thing in his "inauguration " speech or whatever you call it. In it, he said he is against gays, female priests, sex out of marriage, and rock and roll.

And they don't "flip out" - I don't know a single person who's ever died of lack of sex.

What do you call getting caught molesting alter boys? I'm sure when they get caught, it's not the first one they ever have done that to. I don't know if you think homosexually molesting a 12 year old boy is normal, but to me, that is flipping out.

No you can't. The word is "repent." If someone has led a horribly sinful life, says confession on his deathbead because he thinks he ought to "just in case", he's got the wrong idea. The sacrament is rendered invalid if it's not genuine. It's not some sort of blind "magic".

If you look in the bible and the rules of Catholicism, you won't find anywhere that your confession has to be genuine. You can say "I lied three times, I stole twice. Please forgive me for all these sins and all I have failed to mention." It simply says if you go to confession, confess your sins, and do your pennance (prayers they assign), you are forgiven.

-Fantom

Good gravy. I have no problem with criticizing the Catholic Church - heavens know I've criticized it enough - but you have to know what you're talking about. Otherwise, you just make yourself look ignorant, gullible and, frankly, bigoted.

Here's a place to start:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

The CATECHISMS? Ha Ha!

I lose ! My money was on Ratzinger not outliving the week. I was even thinking he'd faint and fall off the balcony.
Place your bets people! Does anyone actually give this guy a year of service before they're rolling him down the streets in a glorified wheel-barrow?