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The human vs. the road police.
Once again I was caught breaking the rules by our brave road traffic code enforcing policemen, and my wallet got lighter by the Russian equivalent of a hundred bucks. I was told that I had crossed the line, the solid white line while overtaking. Well, the line might have been there once, there might be traces of it left there still, but I didn’t have my microscope with me to pinpoint its exact location and as usual those people were of no use arguing with. I was facing a driving license revocation for several months, but the good old bribe helped the mix-up be fixed right on the spot. So the question is: isn’t it good to have a corrupt police sometime? Generally speaking there was no offence on my part: there was no visible solid line, the were no other cars around other than mine and the one ahead of me moving at 40km ph, no danger whatsoever for me to maneuver the way I did, but had the procedure gone by the book would it have been fare to deprive me of one of the basic human rights :roll: for such a piffling misdemeanor?
What are the ways and habits concerning road police – driver interactions in your part of the world? What are the penalties? Do you really do 40mph when the speed limit is 40mph?
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Жизненная история. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexB
isn’t it good to have a corrupt police sometime
I think that bribes can very helpful, and the horrors of corruption are somewhat exaggerated - not in the sense that it does not exist, but in the sense that contrary to the popular belief the average person's life would not be much better without it. The ordinary citizen in most cases would spend just as much money and time, or likely more, without any improvement of the overall service.
Also, bribes are almost never mandatory. If you have such high principle, you can live by the law, like other people who are not well off. It's that simple. Just pay your fines, wait in lines, enjoy mediocre services, pass your exams HOSNESTLY, etc.
PS. Байка удалена, как не несущая смысловой нагрузки. :D
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Я могу написать тут 27 томов с послесловием на эту тему, всё из моего личного опыта, но стоит ли? :dunno:
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexB
So the question is: isn’t it good to have a corrupt police sometime?
You can't look at the police in isolation, you have to question the whole system of corruption. I was listening to a Russian who said Russia ranks no. 146 in the world in terms of corruption, with the likes of Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone and some other lovely spots (Ukraine too).
I'm very doubtful that a country can achieve 1st world status and still have endemic corruption. I think it kills private initiative. I also think it inculcates a bully mentality wherein people use their position in an arbitrary, abusive manner just because they can. When everything is open to the highest bidder, even a bus driver knows that he can get away with things because citizens can't do anything about it.
BTW, I'm not judging corruption morally, if people want to live like that, go right ahead.
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Corruption etc. starts from the top. Look at what happened to Khodorkovsky. Regardless of whether or not he was actually guilty, he was sent off to Siberia on the whim of someone at the top just to make things even harder for him in terms of contacts with family, lawyers, press, etc.
Also, to answer the question isn’t it good to have a corrupt police sometime? bear in mind that you might not have had the run-in with the cops in the first place if they had not wanted some money from you.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexB
What are the ways and habits concerning road police – driver interactions in your part of the world? What are the penalties? Do you really do 40mph when the speed limit is 40mph?
I have heard that American drivers are very law abiding. They stick to the traffic rules in general and are very polite to other drivers.
In Britain a bit less so, but most people try not to break the speed limits because there are cameras EVERYWHERE. Some of them (about half) don't have any film or don't work. But most people do not know which cameras work and which ones don't.
The cameras take a picture the number plates of all cars that it judges to be breaking the speed limit. This gets automatically processed and the registered car owner recieves the fine in the post a few days later. It is almost impossible to argue against the cameras.
Any trick which obscures your number plate from being photographed is illegal too. Big Brother....
In Holland traffic police uses some other measuring equipment to catch people who are speeding. When I was driving with a colleague there, she had bought some equipment that warned her of police controls. Holland is so small that the system can keep track of exactly where the police is working at any time. So this system beeps if you are approaching a police check. Then she just slowed down.
As far as I am concerned she was driving too fast and she ought to drive slower instead of buying this equipment.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
The Russian bribe system is much better usually. In USA the cops are required to arrest people at times, that even the cops at the scene know shouldn't be arrested. This because they have to do what some stupid regulation says rather than what a rational human believes at the scene. If they don't arrest they risk a court case themselves. I think the the USA is more of a police state than Russia.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
I think the the USA is more of a police state than Russia.
Surely not "the land of the free...." :shock:
You have the greatest democracy on earth, remember? The beacon of freedom and the rightful judge of all other countries! The force of goodness against the axis of evil which is threatening to destroy us all....
In fact, it's so great that it has to be spread elsewhere using as much force as the righteous cause requires... Like the Vietnamese who needed to be "free" whether they liked it or not.
Plus all these people in oil-rich and strategically located countries that also must be liberated so that they too can be free to drink coke, wear a miniskirt or jeans and listen to rock (and allow US bases on their territory and sell oil cheaply...)
How could you possibly call this freest of the free country a police state? You must be a terrorist or a communist!
:"":
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
I think that the certain 'golden' balance between the total corruption and total dictature of law should be maintained. Laws are written by criminals these days and their aim is to goad the people into miserable and thoughtless existence. Rulers try to build some kind of a social machine that suppresses any individual thought. The absense of law from the other hand lead people into thinking that 'strongest survives' and erodes all moral norms. Petty bribes are innocent compared to the level of corruption that flourishes on the higher levels. A governor that takes bribes should be imprisoned, but a traffic police officer that takes a bribe is a normal thing.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
I think bribes are bad! What happens if you can't afford to pay them or if the corrupt officials decide that they need more bribes? Thank goodness I don't need to bribe anyone!
Plus, you get your "hands dirty" and have actually committed a crime as you bribed an official. Supposedly it's illegal both to take and receive bribes. There is something sick about a situation where bribes are needed to get things moving. It could be used against the people involved at any time. Once you start this practice, where do you stop? Are you going to have to bribe someone to keep you alive at the hospital eventually?
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
I think the the USA is more of a police state than Russia.
Surely not "the land of the free...." :shock:
You have the greatest democracy on earth, remember? The beacon of freedom and the rightful judge of all other countries! The force of goodness against the axis of evil which is threatening to destroy us all....
In fact, it's so great that it has to be spread elsewhere using as much force as the righteous cause requires... Like the Vietnamese who needed to be "free" whether they liked it or not.
Plus all these people in oil-rich and strategically located countries that also must be liberated so that they too can be free to drink coke, wear a miniskirt or jeans and listen to rock (and allow US bases on their territory and sell oil cheaply...)
How could you possibly call this freest of the free country a police state? You must be a terrorist or a communist!
:"":
Nope! USA has the greatest system, Constitutionin the world, that means a republic governed BY the people that limits the government to a small size and prevents tyrannical takeovers. It recognuzes the fact than Righrs are 'natural" to ALL men, and NOT given by the government, meaning that the government can not take those rights away. Free speech and the RIGHT TO DEFEND ONESELF EVEN FROM THE GOVERNMENT!
The problem is that the Constitution has been IGNORED by corrupt politicians in cahoots with the "free press" which is no longer "free", it is owned by the FAR LEFTWING which wants to adopt the European socialist or one world system. That's why we have a Police State, now. NOT because the Constitution is weak. We have politicians, rich bankers and Money-men, Media Moguls that need to be arrested and imprisoned.
You don't know anything about the Vietnamese! Which one's did not want the UN's help? The communists in Hanoi? Why were the commies in the north sending troops to the south? Because the south did not want to be rules by commies. The educated people in S Vietnam did not want to be like China. The rest...well who gives a shit what they wanted?
OK, that's one thing, but there is a lot more to that story that is not worth going into here, because it involves parties that most people have never heard of, like the "Black Popes" or the Committee of 300.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
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Originally Posted by Ramil
I think that the certain 'golden' balance between the total corruption and total dictature of law should be maintained. Laws are written by criminals these days and their aim is to goad the people into miserable and thoughtless existence. Rulers try to build some kind of a social machine that suppresses any individual thought. The absense of law from the other hand lead people into thinking that 'strongest survives' and erodes all moral norms. Petty bribes are innocent compared to the level of corruption that flourishes on the higher levels. A governor that takes bribes should be imprisoned, but a traffic police officer that takes a bribe is a normal thing.
I agree! Criminals write the laws. Fools obey those laws because they indoctrinated into believing the lies that the criminals spread. A true Patriot in the USA, is one who DOES NOT pay his taxes. But all the good sheeple I mean people belive the opposite.
In Russia I think that it is "set up" to pay bribes. The paper work is so ridiculous, one almost HAS to bribe one's way through it all. I even had to bribe officials at the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Moscow in order to get things accomplished. Just don't call it a "bribe". I call it the express method and of course the express method costs a little more!
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Вот. Русская юмористическая передача «Городок».
http://gorodok.tv/episode_play?id=368 — взятки заменили официальными премиями «за помощь в борьбе с коррупцией».
http://gorodok.tv/episode_play?id=367 — наш герой попал на операцию к врачу, которому он когда-то продал диплом хирурга.
http://video.mail.ru/mail/galynasuprun/9838/9909.html — «давайте, для начала, закурим».
http://video.mail.ru/inbox/digital_acce ... /1287.html — «надо было взятку давать».
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
alex...
Sorry so late to chime in here...
first a couple of comments on your word choices and corrections...
"the solid white line while overtaking" nothing wrong with that, however, I would have said, "passing" and not overtaking.
facing a driving license revocation for several months again, nothing wrong; however, I would ave used, "suspension" and not revocation.
would it have been [s:3elr4ysr]fare[/s:3elr4ysr] fair to deprive me of
and the one ahead of me was moving at 40km ph, so there was no danger whatsoever.
My comment about all of this is what is the difference between you paying off the policeman and a woman resorting to croc tears, claiming PMS or looking very sexy to get out of the ticket? Hmm??
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Can the police in the US commandeer a private vehicle to block a road with it for capturing a suspect like it happend the other day in Moscow?
http://inforotor.ru/visit/2689012?url=h ... cle3139444
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selexin
Judging by many Hollywood movies police officers in USA do that every day.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
johanna said: "I have heard that American drivers are very law abiding. They stick to the traffic rules in general and are very polite to other drivers." :lol:
It's a contact sport in some areas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPkJCZg1T14
I don't really miss a 1 hour commute but I have 4 months of lost tourists every year.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
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Originally Posted by rockzmom
alex...
Sorry so late to chime in here...
first a couple of comments on your word choices and corrections...
Thanks, Jazz. It’s always great to have someone who can lead you out of the illiterate darkness into the literate light. :thanks: :D
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
The USA is a big country, Europe’s freeways are wide and smooth too. :) Grand expanses, long roads, most of them unlike ours are good. What does it feel like having a modern powerful car and always restraining yourself from going over the speed limit, which must be not so high? Even on our awful roads I find it more and more stressful with each coming year to drive long distances. Penalty rates won’t stop rising, traffic control ambushes grow in numbers. If you dare go south to the sea by car you are prone to lose a big chunk of your holyday money paying yourself off of the road vultures. Slow but steady driver’s live is turning into hell.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
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Originally Posted by alexB
What does it feel like having a modern powerful car and always restraining yourself from going over the speed limit, which must be not so high? .
Don't know, I don't drive...
The Autobahn (a motorway system in Germany) has no speed limits. You can go as fast as you want, more or less. It's 4 lanes each direction, I think. Mainly the direction is North - South. I went on it as a child and it felt a bit scary if you have never experienced really fast speed before, or really wide motorways. I don't like it. My father scared the life out of the whole family by driving at an insane speed on the way to Austria. Ugh!
In England there are roadworks all the time. They dig up the road to fix electricity... Then 2 weeks later... the gas! Then.. water.... Cable, broadband... Etc ad infinitum
Sweden has great roads compared with England and a lot less traffic. No wide motorways at all, since it is not needed.
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From the Moscow Times:
The Hard Lives of Police and Prostitutes
Traffic police and prostitutes have a lot in common. Both stand by the side of the road and try to get what they can from passing motorists.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
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Originally Posted by capecoddah
Traffic police and prostitutes have a lot in common. Both stand by the side of the road and try to get what they can from passing motorists.
That's a very old source of jokes in Russia. http://video.bigmir.net/show/105086/
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
In the US there are some unofficial guidelines about driving, specifically about speed.
On the major freeways it would be very unusual for a traffic cop to stop someone for speeding if they were not driving at least 10MPH above the posted speed limit. The purpose of the traffic police is to encourage safety on the road. On the interstate freeways most cars drive faster than the posted limit if there isn't too much traffic. As long as you are not driving crazy or something the police usually will not bother you.
On city streets things are a little different. Just speaking for myself, I try to obey the speed limits exactly when I'm driving on any city street. Some cities tell the police they need to write a certain number of traffic tickets each day, so you can be stopped for smaller offenses sometimes. Normally police will not stop people who haven't done anything too serious. If it is a matter like you describe where it is hard to tell what you should have done, police in the US will sometimes just give you a warning about it.
Often police will stop people for small infractions if they are looking for someone in particular, or just because it is a good way to catch criminals. When you are stopped they enter your license plate information and your driver's license number into a computer to see if you are a wanted criminal or if someone reported the car as stolen. This has worked pretty well, as criminals often don't obey traffic laws, so they get caught speeding or going through a stop light and then arrested for something they had done before.
Just a warning to Russians visiting the US: NEVER try to bribe a policeman here. They would probably arrest you for it.
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Re: The human vs. the road police.
