Holidays to Chernobyl - Отпуск в Чернобыль?!

I just read that Chernobyl is becoming a popular "tourist destination"!:sad2:

My initial reaction was that this is incredibly tasteless, insensitive and generally perverse. It's a terrible tragedy, why go there and gloat on it? What is wrong with people!?

Has anyone got a view on this?

The visitors are people from Western Europe (primarily) and the USA. Apparently a day tour to the village that was near the nuclear plant costs USD 1000.

The nuclear plant needs emergency repair works to its cement casing... and children are still dying from throat cancer and leaukemia in that area.

Or is it good to bring attention to the problems in the area, and positive to get the tourist money in, even if the tourists are nuts...?

I don't see anything like a blasphemy or disrespect in visiting Chernobyl as a tourist. It is already a history. I don't have contemporary statistics about cancer. AFAIK now radiation is low and the normal "incubation" period of radiation cancer is 3-4 years. My grandmother died because of cancer in a 3 years after the accident, it was a burst of cancer at that time all over the Ukraine. Some problems still exist (like nobody knows exactly what is going on under the sarcophagus). But the peak was too long ago to be an actual disaster.

One can remember museum in Auschwitz. Or how Roosevelt proposed Stalin to keep ruined Stalingrad as a museum area. It's a memory and warning.

Villages around Chernobyl were evacuated in a hurry and everything was left as it was, like if people suddenly disappeared, and than everything decayed with time. It makes a feeling of Apocalypse. There is even a popular PC game on the virtual reconstruction of that town (Припять). Now that area is quarantined.

http://www.tema.ru/travel/chernobyl/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanna

Has anyone got a view on this?

---

...more money than brains. I wonder who's pocketing that grand to visit a village for a day. I saw a show on Chernobyl awile back and it seems like the place is still pretty dangerous.

I see your point of view too, it-ogo.

It's true that it's a bit of the world frozen in time.... and now beginning to decline. I saw a documentary about it about a year back. Agree that it is fascinating in some respects.

But actually going yourself, is different.

Seems like being a tour guide in Chernobyl would be very lucrative work. If someone takes a group of five to this village near Chernobyl, he'd make 5000 dollar in a day. Not bad! I can see that there'd be lots of people who'd want to support this as a tourist destination.


The comparison with Auschwitz is a good one.

Personally I never understood people who want to visit concentration camps either! The people who deny the holocaust ought to go... But that's mostly extremists anyway.

I will never forget chatting to a girl in Israel about this, many years ago. She was working nights stapling products in a shop (really hard work) in addition to going to school during the days. The reason was that she needed to save money to go to Poland (Aushwitz) with her youth group. She wasn't going anywhere else in Europe, just there... That, to her would then represent Europe! No doubt she already knew Auschwitz, so it just seemed like rolling in tragedy and misery. Of course it wasn't my business how she spent her holidays, but it stuck on my mind.

By the way, you should not say "gloat on it" like I did. I don't think that's the right way to use that expression. Just "gloat" is how it should be used, I think. The rest is implicit. I sometimes forget that I ought to write in my best English here, not allow myself to slip into pidgin English...

Have you seen any of the video of Pripyat? I find it fascinating!

Do a search, you can find plenty.

$1,000 for a day there? no.

I don't see anything horrible in visiting Chernobyl, though I do find comments like "Wow! It was just like in "STALKER"!" very immature and insensitive.

The "tourist" interest to this region became more pronounced in the last 2-3 years. Even on Ukrainian forums you can see local youngsters asking "How can I visit Chernobyl?". As far as I know it's MUCH cheaper than you think. Obe day tour (including transfer from and back to Kiev) costs about 100-150 dollars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanna

My initial reaction was that this is incredibly tasteless, insensitive and generally perverse. It's a terrible tragedy, why go there and gloat on it? What is wrong with people!?

---

One more comparison. Christianity (at least Catholic and Orthodox) is based on worshiping martyr's relics. Now read your previous paragraph. :D

(And maybe you'll understand that Israeli girl a bit better.)

There were several threads already at this forum about Pripyat' and Chernobyl'. In case if someone haven't seen the photos I'll post several here (this photos of Pripyat' shows how it looked before and after the catastrophe):

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8...sle30foto2.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2...sle30foto3.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1...sle30foto4.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6...sle30foto5.jpg

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/7...sle30foto6.jpg

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/8...sle30foto7.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8...sle30foto8.jpg

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3...sle30foto9.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/102...le30foto10.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9...le30foto11.jpg

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3...le30foto12.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1...le30foto13.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4...le30foto14.jpg

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9...le30foto15.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6264/yvay3.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4839/yvay4.jpg

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8138/yvay7.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6892/yvay8.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9562/yvay9.jpg

Russia is difficult country in all moves you go. And our sight at many things have big difference from other cultures. In fact, this is our fault in Chernobyl catastrophe, and our contempt to important life subjects is extremely contagious to people in our neiborhoods.
The impressivest photo is with siluet of little girl on the wall... it's terrible.
Самая впечатляющая фотография -- с силуэтом девочки на стене... ужас просто. Я играл в "Сталкер", игра ужасна не монстрами, а пониманием того, что это действительно может быть.

Yeah, having seen all these photographs I remembered some very difficult moments in the game around these places. And the elevators reminded me of the X8 lab. )))

The movie theater and some of the highrise buildings definitely look familiar... The hotel looked a bit differently in the game, I think, or perhaps I saw it from a different angle. Where is the Ferris wheel, though?

it's like it's frozen in time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

...Where is the Ferris wheel, though?

---

The Dead Ferris Wheel of Chernobyl | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Nuclear Winter in Chernobyl

Pripyat must have been in a really good shape when the accident happened. I looks like a really well-planned town. Surrounded by nice nature and with good public facilities: from the playgrounds to the swimming pool etc. Perhaps it was created just for supporting the nuclear plant but nevertheless it's not bad at all.

I was a kid when the accident happened, but I remember it well because the cloud came in straight over Sweden due to the winds on the day. There was a really big drama in media and some very mild radioactive pollution. Of course, nothing compared to what happened in Ukraine and Belarus.

Did anyone have any relatives or friends who were affected by the accident?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by it-ogo

One more comparison. Christianity (at least Catholic and Orthodox) is based on worshiping martyr's relics. Now read your previous paragraph. :D
(And maybe you'll understand that Israeli girl a bit better.)

---

Haha but I am not Catholic or Orthodox! Saint worship is an abolishion ;-) according to Lutheranism. .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanna

Haha but I am not Catholic or Orthodox! Saint worship is an abolishion ;-) according to Lutheranism. .

---

So, Lutheranism is something like Islam. I see... :D

I meant that you probably know about this phenomenon from history anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lampada

The Dead Ferris Wheel of Chernobyl | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Nuclear Winter in Chernobyl

---

Лампада, спасибо за ссылки! Я с большим интересом прочла впечатления этого американца.
Кстати, я посмотрела вот этот документальный фильм о Чернобыле, сделан Discovery каналом. Он также достаточно интересен, хотя и не знаю насколько все информации точны.
Я вспоминаю когда я была маленькой, когда мы слышали от телевизора новость о чернобыльской аварии, что я очень сильно испугалась.. Я всё-таки каждый раз в шоке, когда читаю или слышу что-нибудь об этом.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoEgkGNO-sQ

And if Chernobyl is not enough, there is more on offer! :sad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RIA NOVOSTI

Russia also offers extreme tours, such as ones to the most infamous prison camps, Josef Stalin's Gulags. Tourists may spend their "holiday" in the Soviet prison camp and feel the experience of being a prisoner.

---

People are strange!! I wonder how much the tourists are going to charged for this "pleasure"? And who would do such a thing.... Reading "Ivan Denisovich" is quite enough in my view.

There is a very interesting book by Anatoly Dyatlov - "Chernobyl- how it was". In Discovery Channel film, he was shown as the main culprit of this disaster. To my knowledge, no one more of participants of this tragedy has left detailed memories. By the way, Discovery Channel also founded on the book, which Dyatlov often refers too, and, for some reason, I believe him anymore.
Link on this book (in russian) - http://pripyat.com/sm/site/fileslibr...how_it_was.pdf

Speaking of that - Dyatlov was one of the several men who were held responsible for the disaster (he was a deputy chief engineer on the power plant). I studied many materials about the disaster and, though I'm not in the position to judge since I have not seen all the documents, from what I studied I can conclude that personnel (Dyatlov included) made many mistakes that day and generally it was due to human intervention that the reactor blew up, it was not due to poor design (the main alternative version) or technical malfunction. Dyatlov claims that they were not aware of the positive reactivity that occurs at certain modes of operation but they deliberately put the reactor in the condition it was not designed to operate in violation of all operating instructions and regulations. As one of the RBMK constructors said -- it's a very good and reliable reactor unless you blow it up deliberately.

When you read his book (a very interesting reading, by the way) don't set your head to stone with his version of the disaster alone.

Yes, I agree, the station personnel must hold responsible, but they was only engineers and couldn't to know all about positive reactivity in reactor. In the operation instructions was no information about this effect. And instructions had no restrictions to use reactor in these modes (number of raised rods, for example). I am an engineer and often must operate sophisticated equipment, but I don't know, how works many things inside of the devices and operate only according to instructions, written by developers. Only if personnel violated an instruction, it must hold responsible. And another fact, the reactor exploded after pressing the emergency stop button. It's impossible in normal system. On forum.ixbt.com there is an interesting thread, where people discussing this disaster, and there is an many posts from the lead engineer of reactor operation on chernobyl station. There discusses a many aspects of reactor control and personnel actions in different situations. And another thing. If the oficial version of this disaster was a design mistake, then IAEA would require the closure of all similar reactors, and this variant was impossible for USSR goverment, and a version of human error was the most convenient. By the way, all similar reactors have been upgraded to prevent a similar catastrophe in future. This suggests that not all was so safe. Where the truth, I don't know, but the personnel is not only one, who is guilty...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HukoJIau

Yes, I agree, the station personnel must hold responsible, but they was only engineers and couldn't to know all about positive reactivity in reactor. In the operation instructions was no information about this effect.

---

Well, I agree, when they write in the manual for a wristwatch 'DO NOT BOIL', 'DO NOT EAT', now I see why.
They couldn't know about positive reactivity but the reactor has to be shut down when the initial power drop occured, but Akimov decided to continue the experiment and ordered to raise the power by extracting more rods.
There were at least 5 (FIVE) alert signals each of them demanded the operators to shut the reactor down (I know that they could use the reactor in this mode because they read the documentation and knew what to expect). But this situation was not in the regulations and they were using what we call 'undocumented features'. По-русски всё просто -- положились "на авось". 'The manufacturer does not guarantee safe work... blah blah blah... use at your own risk.'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HukoJIau

And another fact, the reactor exploded after pressing the emergency stop button. It's impossible in normal system.

---

This button was pressed when the core has already been melted. The rods simply couldn't go down under the vapor pressure and the shafts were already damaged. They pushed it too late.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HukoJIau

If the oficial version of this disaster was a design mistake, then IAEA would require the closure of all similar reactors, and this variant was impossible for USSR goverment, and a version of human error was the most convenient. By the way, all similar reactors have been upgraded to prevent a similar catastrophe in future. This suggests that not all was so safe. Where the truth, I don't know, but the personnel is not only one, who is guilty...

---

There are several identical reactors in use at a nuclear power plant called Ignalina in Lithuania. It's like "the sister" of Chernobyl. The name was mentioned a lot just after the accident. But the view of experts was that it was in fact safe. I guess that's a good reflection on the design.

Apparently that it is still in use; the Lithuanians refuse to close it, despite the EU insisting on it. I don't know what reservations the EU has though. Lithuania has no other good source of power and any alternative would make them too dependent on imports and "dirty energy" like coal.

I saw the documentary that's mentioned here, and IF the information in that reconstruction is true; then Dyagilev has a lot of lives on his conscience!! It's hard to imagine that anyone can decide to ignore safety regulations at a nuclear power plant...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hanna

I saw the documentary that's mentioned here, and IF the information in that reconstruction is true; then Dyagilev has a lot of lives on his conscience!! It's hard to imagine that anyone can decide to ignore safety regulations at a nuclear power plant...

---

Oh, no. The man in command was Alexander Akimov. Akimov claimed he objected the continuation of the experiment, but Dyatlov insisted. They both are dead now, but Dyatlov was the only one who managed to write a book though and I don't think that one can actually put all the blame on himself when he writes. The key reason for the accident was the fact that there was some 'grey spots' in the documentation and the operators assumptions about it were wrong. There was a risk, but still it's a mistake, but not negligence, in my opinion. Besides, the procedure for the experiment was approved by many other officials. They should have shut the thing down when it went wrong. But you have to take into account that it was USSR and it could cost a career or worse.

Анатолий Вассерман © 2000
Чернобылей больше не будет

Сегодня в новостях прочитал, что Чернобыль становится заповедной зоной. Как оказалось, отсутствие человека в "зоне отчуждения" поспособствовало быстрому восстановления первозданной природы. Ожидали ли вы, что Чернобыль - сможет стать заповедной зоной, спутя 20 лет после ужасной аварии и экологической катастрофы?

Mankind will always be fascinated by all that is morbid. Vice magazine did a documentary about going there to try and hunt giant radioactive wolves. Obviously it's quite gash and childish but for those curious about the look and feel of Chernobyl, there's some decent footage The Radioactive Beasts of Chernobyl - The Vice Guide to Travel | VBS.TV

I am from Chernihiv (Ukraine), nuclear power plant is located not far from my town (about 100 km). People who live in Chernigov lucky, because after the accident at Chernobyl, the wind was north ... and suffered more Belarus then we.
Although Chernobyl is located not far from my city, I do not want to go there on tour)

Quote:

---

Apparently a day tour to the village that was near the nuclear plant costs USD 1000.

---

For me it cost 50 USD.)