Thread: God's Name

For materialistic persons I suggest reading this:
Fine-tuned Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html

It's not a proof of God's existance (well, not for them, anyway) but still an idea to ponder upon. Also try to estimate the probability of our universe coming into existence if only random chance ruled the process.

Originally Posted by Ramil

For materialistic persons I suggest reading this:
Fine-tuned Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence for the Fine Tuning of the Universe

It's not a proof of God's existance (well, not for them, anyway) but still an idea to ponder upon. Also try to estimate the probability of our universe coming into existence if only random chance ruled the process.

Hey, you was the one who declared skepticism towards British Scientists TM. Why do you think it is different? Scientific method has severe and complicated limitations. If one don't keep all of them in his mind, he can not often get even the general sense of the models. Those mathematical models are things in themselves. Don't take them too serious.

And BTW I do not identify myself as materialistic person either.

Originally Posted by Ramil

It's not a proof of God's existance (well, not for them, anyway) but still an idea to ponder upon. Also try to estimate the probability of our universe coming into existence if only random chance ruled the process.

Philosophically speaking, the worst thing about that 'fine-tuning' or 'random chance' claim is that it's taken out of context. There might be 10E100000 more 'universes' co-existing and never (time is a property of a universe too) cross lanes whilst each having all kinds of constants. It's only the universe of our own which is material to us (at this point, at least). In our universe we see only the constants that our universe has. The other constants might produce a different universe with a different conscious beings perceiving their universe with their different senses (which do not exist in our universe) and making conclusion that their consciousness can not be by chance, there must be a plan (or whatever is a substitute for plan in their universe) behind it. And the other 10E100000 - 2 universes had all different constants which were unable to sustain the universe in equilibrium for some long period of time and the matter disappeared there. Bottom line - it doesn't make sense to claim the uniqueness based on only one example.

Historically speaking it is true that there was a separate "Allah" mythology before Islam and a separate YHVH (or El, Elohim, etc.) mythology or even several before Judaism and Christianity. All three monotheistic religions have roots in elements which existed long before the pertaining scriptures. And insofar as these elements are separate it is correct to say the gods are not the same. However, that's not very useful because Islam is a reinterpretation of the old pagan faith in the terms of the surrounding monotheistic religions, just as Christianity is a reinterpretation of Judaism, and insofar they focus on the same divine being. Myths get reinterpreted and transferred from one protagonist to another all the time. In pre-scripture times that was how it was done. Different peoples met, and when they got along they began exchanging stories about their gods. And they translated those gods just like they translated language. For example, all accounts of the Great Flood agree that there is a main protagonist as the sole survivor (sole plus his family at least, but the important one is just the partriarch), and this person is called variously Atrahasis, Ziusudra, Utnapishtim and Noah, and the stories differ in almost all respect except the statement that this person built a vessel and survived the flood. Of course that's no god in either of the stories, but the same is true for all the various Els and Baals and whatnot.

And saying that "Allah" is purely Arabic and not Hebrew is about as useful as saying that "finger" is pure English and not German (which uses the same word for the same thing), forgetting that the common root for Allah and El and the other versions mentioned is a family of languages called Semitic. So the name is not a good argument for stating that different gods are referred to either.