Thread: СКАЯ?

What does "skaya" mean?
I have seen СКАЯ used as suffix to many different Russian words.
What does it indicate? The way it is used makes me think that it means "something of importance", something proper, or deserved of great respect. Does it change a noun to a higher level of stature?

Originally Posted by flyfisher

The way it is used makes me think that it means "something of importance", something proper, or deserved of great respect. Does it change a noun to a higher level of stature?

No, nothing like that. Strictly speaking, this is not a suffix, it is a combination of suffix "ск" and feminine adjective ending "ая". This combination is simply used to form adjectives from nouns.

E.g. "Москва" (the city of Moscow) -> "Московская область" (the Moscow Region).
"Клин" (the city of Klin) -> "Клинское пиво" (Klin beer).

It's an adjectival ending, the feminine form of -ский (-ski). It's mostly used for place names.

Москва - Moscow
Московкий вокзал - The Moscow station
Московская область - The Moscow region
Московское метро - The Moscow metro
Moсковские улицы - The Moscoe streets

I'm not sure I would agree with "mostly used for place names." Just go to any студенческий городок and ask around.

As translations said, -ск- is a suffix that is followed by ая to make a fem. adjective. I don't have my Backwards Dictionary handy or I would count all the -ский words that are and are not place names. (NOT!) But that would be физически impossible in the sense that I would die of boredom first. Probably a gazillion -ический adjectives too.

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

Semantically speaking, you can think of the "ск" suffix as a rough equivalent of English "of", where you see it in a surname or just an adjective formed from a noun (that's not true in 100% of cases, but works as a rule of thumb).

For example, "Prince of Wales" is traditionally translated as "принц Уэльский".

So, basically, most of surnames ending in "ский/ская" originally meant "hailing from a certain place", or "owner/lord of a certain place", or some other type of an "of' relationship.

There are also some "invented" surnames, like "Богословский", "Крестовоздвиженский" etc. Names like that were either given to students of religious seminaries instead of their "worldly" surnames, or to orphans whose real last names were not known.

[...] most of surnames ending in "ский/ская" originally meant [...] "owner/lord of a certain place" [...]

I would agree with that. Traditionally, the suffix "ский/ская" would denote an upper class person who can directly be associated with the place he or she owns. The lower class person would be named differently, ending with "ич".

For example:

1. князь Московский => The Prince of Moscow (very important)

2. купец Москович => a merchant from Moscow (somewhat important)

3. холоп князя Московского => a serf of The Prince of Moscow (the least important, so can only be associated with his lord and not with the place of origin; the place is not relevant probably because a serf can be sold)

So I guess, since the Serfdom was at some point abandoned, this strict distinction became obsolete and, nowdays, any person who is Владимирский is probably not a descendant of The Prince of Vladimir, but rather either of his previous peasants.

(Later addition

The combination of the surname and the land is very old and very stable. At some point in history of Russia the lands were named after their owners. Probably the most famous example is:

боярин Голицын -> Голицыно (which is not even a city)

Here the surname is the primary and the place is the secondary. So, the term: "Голицынский крестьянин" would mean "a peasant who belong to The Lord Golicin" and not to the place of Golicino.

Please have a look: [http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/lastnames/2604]

"Голица - рукавица; голичник - тот, кто шьет рукавицы. (Ф). Голицын. Одна из самых древних фамилий. Могла возникнуть из старинного слова голицы (галицы) - 'кожаные голые рукавицы для работ'. Фамилия была боярской, затем распространенной дворянской. С отменой крепостного права в центральных областях фамилия Голицын была присвоена множеству крестьян."

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

What do you mean "what's the deal", it sounds like you think they're strange.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

What do you mean "what's the deal", it sounds like you think they're strange.

"what's the deal" asks "please elaborate", or "please explain in detail".
Meaning strange? Yes/no, maybe so. "Unfamiliar" is probably a better term.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

What do you mean "what's the deal", it sounds like you think they're strange.

I see what you're saying and it does have that 'confused' connotation, but I didn't mean anything of the sort. I've grown up around people with names like these so they have never really been unfamiliar or strange. I was simply interested in the etymological aspect.

post deleted

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

What do you mean "what's the deal", it sounds like you think they're strange.

I see what you're saying and it does have that 'confused' connotation, but I didn't mean anything of the sort. I've grown up around people with names like these so they have never really been unfamiliar or strange. I was simply interested in the etymological aspect.

A lot of Polish and Ukrainian names end is -ski (Polish) / -ський (Ukrainian). In the West, names ending -ski are associated with being Jewish, mainly because most people of Eastern European origin in the West traditionally were Jewish, so Eastern European names became associated with being Jewish.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by xRoosterx

While we're on the subject, what's the deal with surnames ending in this suffix?

What do you mean "what's the deal", it sounds like you think they're strange.

I see what you're saying and it does have that 'confused' connotation, but I didn't mean anything of the sort. I've grown up around people with names like these so they have never really been unfamiliar or strange. I was simply interested in the etymological aspect.

A lot of Polish and Ukrainian names end is -ski (Polish) / -ський (Ukrainian). In the West, names ending -ski are associated with being Jewish, mainly because most people of Eastern European origin in the West traditionally were Jewish, so Eastern European names became associated with being Jewish.

as well as German names ending in -stein.