Condolences to Polish forum members

I was shocked and so sad to hear about the terrible plane crash and the loss of the Polish president and so many senior officials. I know there are Poles visiting here from time to time; this is for you.

How tragic that it should happen in Russia just as Poland and Russia were trying to start afresh in their relationship. I hope that development can continue when things have returned to normal. I think this development will set an important precedent that will be beneficial for everyone.

Rest in Peace.

http://www.nndb.com/people/829/00010...ki-2-sized.jpg

A horrible tragedy indeed. I just have no words to express my feelings towards this subject. I'm planning to go to the Polish embassy in Moscow tomorrow and lay flowers there.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/452...411a18nd11.jpg

It's so tragic. R.I.P.

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Originally Posted by Basil77

I'm planning to go to the Polish embassy in Moscow tomorrow and lay flowers there.

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What a good idea. :good:

thank you, Johanna. It's greatly appreciated. :)

Politically speaking, I was not a supporter of Lech Kaczyński, however on hearing those news I was in great shock, as was everyone. It's completely insane. The death of all these people is undoubtedly the biggest tragedy of Polish latest history.

I was very impressed with the reaction of Russian authorities, they could not have handled the situation any better.

I was surprised to see on the National News my own town mentioned as an area in the U.S. having a large outpouring of people showing their grief and support to the Polish people...

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0410/724668.html

there's actually a "thank you" campaign (although this may not be the best word choice?) going on at the moment in Poland to all the Russians showing support. There's been an official letter published:
"Мы, граждане Польши, которая на протяжении последних семидесяти лет не могла примириться с потерей своих лучших сынов, убитых в катынском лесу, обращаемся к гражданам России с благодарностью за их призыв к примирению. Мы тронуты той помощью и солидарностью, которые обращены к нам как со стороны российского государства, так и со стороны простых россиян в этот трагический для нас период [...] За то добро, которое мы получаем от Вас в эти дни, мы благодарим Вас от всего сердца. Мы очень надеемся на то, что вместе с Вами мы можем создавать благо в будущем – благо для Польши, для России, для Европы и для всего мира."

The whole text is rather pompous, but still. :)
And then, next to the official letter, there's also around 800 pages of thank you comments from the Internet users. And the number of that is constantly increasing.

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Originally Posted by kamka

The whole text is rather pompous, but still. :)

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Perhaps this is not the time, but I wonder what will happen with Russian-Polish relations now, after this accident. For many years they were rather tense. Many people I know here are sure that our relations might turn to worse and many think that there bound to be some people who will think that this catastrophe was orchestrated.
(Personally I don't belive in this particular conspiracy theory but I've heard already some speculations about that).
Kamka, your opinion on this matter would probably be the most valuable one on this forum regarding this matter.

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Originally Posted by kamka

there's actually a "thank you" campaign (although this may not be the best word choice?) going on at the moment in Poland to all the Russians showing support.

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Wow, that's great! :friends:

Perhaps something good can eventually come out of this terrible, terrible tragedy. Improved relations between the countries, and drawing a line with the past and agreeing to look forward instead. It's impressive that so many Russians decided to send condolences.

I just wanted to say that I feel terribly sad for Poland, and it's a tragic irony that this happened as they were on their way to remember those who died in another tragedy, the Katyn massacre (the first such rememberance). It's just horrible.

It's difficult to say how this whole accident with affect the Polish-Russian relations on the long run, but I sincerely hope that perhaps it might be a start for changing it for the better. Truth be told, I don't even know how this catastrophe will affect our domestic politics, I dread the following week, as when the mourning is over, we will probably face the political wars and bashing all over again, only now the politicians will be armed with a whole new kind of weapon. I am almost positive this accident will be used by some as a mean of gaining votes for themselves, and taking it away from the others.

But, coming back to the original question, I know it meant a lot for the Poles to hear the words about Katyń coming from Putin, as did the whole support shown by the Russians. Most of the people I speak to say they feel it might be just the break that both of the nations needed. However, being realistic, I highly doubt there will be a miraclous change in the relations, as it takes more than just a couple of days to repair something that hasn't been exactly right for many, many years. What I see in it, is the first real chance in quite a long time to finally put some of the things we both did to each other behind and just START to focus more on the present situation. I just hope this chance will not be wasted. I think it MIGHT, to some extend, be a case of now, or never.
As for the speculations, they have, of course, appeared. So far I have only come across them on the Internet, and I find them thoroughly absurd. Some of the people say it must've been plotted by Tusk and Putin, as there were hardly any representatives of Tusk's party on the plane, others claim it's not a coincidence that this particular plane was being fixed by the Russians a couple months ago. Those are not very common views, and just reading about it makes me feel embarassed for the idiots writing it. I see no reason whatsoever why the Russians would want Kaczyński dead, especially with his term of office being almost over.
Most of the people now seem to have a very positive attitude towards Russia, and express their newly gained liking towards the country, but I think this whole case must quiet down a bit to see whether or not it will really affect our relations, and in what way. The most scary part about it is that it does not depend on the people as much as it does on the way the politicians will handle it right now.

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Originally Posted by kamka

The most scary part about it is that it does not depend on the people as much as it does on the way the politicians will handle it right now.

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Thanks for your answer and let's hope everything will settle down somehow and the political debates will not be overheated.

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Originally Posted by kamka

It's difficult to say how this whole accident with affect the Polish-Russian relations on the long run, but I sincerely hope that perhaps it might be a start for changing it for the better.

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Yes, let's hope that the relations between our countries will change for the better. It's a shame that they were not so good in the last decades. If I were a Russian goverment I'll publish the list of executioners' names in Katyn massacre to show Poland our good will, but they are (our officials) still keeping that in secret because of, how they say, "humanitarian" reasons. Yes, some people will be very ashamed to know that their grandpa was not a GPW hero who fought nazis, but a dirty NKVD murderer. It's their problem imho, Poles should be allowed to know all the facts, including names.

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As for the speculations, they have, of course, appeared.

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Let's not pay attention to the fools and to the morons who haven't heart. I think that ANY speculations, especially at these days of mourning are just immoral.

2Basil77
Хорошо что ты не руководишь Россией, а то бы начал еще одну гражданскую.
Ты бы и Ульмана выдал чеченам?

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Originally Posted by BappaBa

2Basil77
..еще одну гражданскую.

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Бред.

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Ты бы и Ульмана выдал чеченам?

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Ещё один бред.

Не хочу, чтобы в этом топике начался срач, если хочешь дискуссию на эту тему, давай создадим другой.

Today as I travelled to work and home from work, I saw several articles in different papers about how this tragedy has really improved Polish -- Russian relations.

The Times had a leader on it and another article too; likewise Evening Standard and Metro, which quoted some super-positive statements about Russia and its' people, made by some Poles.

Kamka, did u see any of that...? They were saying how Poland can play an important role as a big EU country to be a bridge with Russia. All good stuff and I hope they see it through. :good:

If only :)
I didn't see any of that, it's really nice to hear, but if I'm to be true, I don't believe this catastrophe will change the position of Poland in the Europe, I think it will be forgotten as sudden as it all happened. I think the UE authorities showed how little they actually cared by not showing up to the funeral. As much as I understand the representatives of individual countries, especially those from the far away countries, I think, given the fact we are in fact a part of UE, it was their responsibility to show up, just as it would have been if any other head of state would pass away. After all, the volcano eruption did not just happen the day before and they had plenty of time to set up a trip by car or bus. Then again, who am I to talk ;)