Thread: Belarus and foreign websites

Originally Posted by Hanna

It is jolly interesting that Dmitry LIVES in Belarus, and I visisted there for quite a long time, and both of us are telling you lot what the real situation is, yet you still prefer to believe propaganda.

All the sources that you are quoting are US or EU funded organisations that have a clearly stated agenda against the current Belarussian government. I am not saying this is a perfect government but they are not monitoring the email of tourists or anyone else.

If things were as bad as you claim, then Dmitry would no doubt complain about it.
If I had been monitored or censored I would certainly tell everyone here about it.

It's certainly ok to complain about real and genuine censorship issue.
That would be for example the "Great Chinese firewall" which I have first hand experience of from work, and which is really stifling and restrictive. Belarus has nothing like that.

And how about the one about throwing stones when you are in a glass house....?
Bradley Manning..... ? Jammie Thomas....? the list goes on. And here is the clip of the American monitoring station that spies on European internet users from England. How do you explain that?



I just get really annoyed when people spread lies about things that they really haven't got a clue about.
I am not saying I am an expert, but in contrast to Eric, Scott and Pavelov I have visitedd this country, and Dmitry K. lives there.

And Scott, if you are actually inclined to believe in this type of nonsense, then I think for your own sake that you would be wisest to simply remain in the US during your holidays instead of travelling abroad, least of all to Belarus.

Hanna,
Are you saying the law is not for real?

Scott

Originally Posted by fortheether

Hanna,
Are you saying the law is not for real?

Scott

After reading what Dmitry Khomitchuk said (who after all has a personal interest in this), I am saying that the impact of the law is probably exaggerated. There is a propaganda war against Belarus so it's natural that something like this is used.

Lots of countries have more internet monitoring and censorship than Belarus.
Australia, South Korea, France, Thailand and China to mention places where you might find yourself on holiday or business. You have more reason to worry there, than in Belarus.

In the USA you should start worrying about SOPA for example (own goal by Pavelov to link to an article about that, lol!)

This map is from Wikipedia's entry on internet censorship




Wikipedia quotes

Internet censorship in Australia currently consists of a regulatory regime under which the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) has the power to enforce content restrictions on Internet content hosted within Australia, and maintain a "black-list" of overseas websites which is then provided for use in filtering software.

The FRA law (FRA-lagen in Swedish) is a Swedish legislative package that authorizes the state to warrantlessly wiretap all telephone and Internet traffic that crosses Sweden's borders.

Thailand: And year by year Internet censorship has grown, with its focus shifting to lèse majesté, national security, and political issues. Estimates put the number of websites blocked at over 110,000 and growing in 2010.^[71]

But let's get to the bottom of this.

I have read the articles now, and just to re-assure myself, I'd like to ask anyone who is in Belarus to try three things:

1) Go to the most anti-government / anti-Lukashenko website you know of (in Russian) and make sure it is not blocked for you.
2) Go to a site that does not have a .by extension and check if you are able to buy something online. (I mean, don't actually buy anything, just check if it is possible to take the purchase up to the point of sale without actually buying.
3) Have you got unrestricted access to the site Vkontakte.ru?

If both these things are possible, then we have proved that the law is nothing to worry about.


And make no mistake - I hate internet monitoring and am all for a completely free internet. But it does not seem to me that the situation in Belarus sticks out as a big problem.

SOPA is a very sad thing and I hope it does not succeed. Stateside, everybody I talk to hates the idea, even among the recent frothing madness of romney. Yet there's a feeling like it's not a thing we have any say in, that it's being decided for us. Only a feeling, logic doesn't support it. Still.

What methods do we have to verify our level of freedom on the internet? I'm not the expert you are in IT, Hanna, but I don't know where I'd even go to verify this, or to get a fair reading of it. And I'm cynical that we'll be guaranteed access to such tools in the future.

Is there a feeling that you are not trusted on the internet in Belarus? Or, that you are being watched? And, in general, is there such a sense in Belarus, about being watched, as is common in Russia (or seems to be, mind you I've not yet been there)? I'm interested in how this law impacts the hearts and minds of the Belarussian.

Originally Posted by Hanna

After reading what Dmitry Khomitchuk said (who after all has a personal interest in this), I am saying that the impact of the law is probably exaggerated. There is a propaganda war against Belarus so it's natural that something like this is used.

Lots of countries have more internet monitoring and censorship than Belarus.
Australia, South Korea, France, Thailand and China to mention places where you might find yourself on holiday or business. You have more reason to worry there, than in Belarus.

In the USA you should start worrying about SOPA for example (own goal by Pavelov to link to an article about that, lol!)

This map is from Wikipedia's entry on internet censorship




Wikipedia quotes







But let's get to the bottom of this.

I have read the articles now, and just to re-assure myself, I'd like to ask anyone who is in Belarus to try three things:

1) Go to the most anti-government / anti-Lukashenko website you know of (in Russian) and make sure it is not blocked for you.
2) Go to a site that does not have a .by extension and check if you are able to buy something online. (I mean, don't actually buy anything, just check if it is possible to take the purchase up to the point of sale without actually buying.
3) Have you got unrestricted access to the site Vkontakte.ru?

If both these things are possible, then we have proved that the law is nothing to worry about.


And make no mistake - I hate internet monitoring and am all for a completely free internet. But it does not seem to me that the situation in Belarus sticks out as a big problem.

I think this picture from Wiki can't be trusted (no idea who put it on there). They have no data for Japan, still they are claiming both North and South Koreas to have the same level of censorship, that's completely insane! Those poor people in North Korea would be executed for the very fact of having a PC at home.

Also, still "under surveillance" seems better than "selective censorship", then why did you say Australia had harsher censorship than Belarus?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I think this picture from Wiki can't be trusted (no idea who put it on there). They have no data for Japan, still they are claiming both North and South Koreas to have the same level of censorship, that's completely insane! Those poor people in North Korea would be executed for the very fact of having a PC at home.

Also, still "under surveillance" seems better than "selective censorship", then why did you say Australia had harsher censorship than Belarus?

Well that map was one of Wikipedias fancy interactive svg pictures, so I'd guess that it's been put together by one of their more senior contributors.

North Koreans can typically not access the internet at all, even if they have a computer (which some do - you are wrong there.) They have a sort of national intranet with forums and news. Censored. The North Koreans will not get "executed for having a computer at home". Did you make that up? Else, state your source! In fact, a computer can be bought at the market there, and according to what I have read, it is not unusual for upper middle class people there to have a computer. But it is true that they cannot use the internet. Obviously a state of serious censorship. Probably there was no data for North Korea available.

South Korea blocks all sites related to pro-North Korea information, and that alone qualifies them as a country with quite serious restrictions. South Koreans who want to read such information have to use foreign proxy servers and risk prison.

Australia, due to its geography is able to restrict people's access much easier than almost any other country. Their censoring is for child porn and suspected terror related sites. Also, random filesharing sites. But some rather surprising sites made it onto the list, and the majority of Australians are furious about the restrictions.

We have yet to get proof that Belarus blocks any sites at all.

I interpreted "selective censorship" as less serious than "under surveillance" based on the colouring and the wording. Regardless, Belarus seems to have the same level as Russia and there is no restrictions in Russia, this topic has already come up on the forum and the Russians have said that there is absolutely no monitoring.

Alternative map


And finally: US Threatened To Blacklist Spain For Not Implementing Site Blocking Law

If you needed a case study, keep on eye Belarus, which has just illegalized the use of foreign websites.

So this means that Belarussian people/companies are forbidden to host their websites outside Belarus?