Apollo hoax

I know this is old news, but I am curious about what Russians think about the possibility of an Apollo moon landing hoax.
I never even considered that it was a hoax until recently; someone pointed out to me that although Americans celebrate almost every conceivable event such as; Labor Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, tax day, Halloween day, etc; why do we not formally celebrate accomplishment of undoubtedly the greatest technological achievement of mandkind, ever?? This somehow made the hoax argument more credible.
What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

I know this is old news, but I am curious about what Russians think about the possibility of an Apollo moon landing hoax.
I never even considered that it was a hoax until recently; someone pointed out to me that although Americans celebrate almost every conceivable event such as; Labor Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, tax day, Halloween day, etc; why do we not formally celebrate accomplishment of undoubtedly the greatest technological achievement of mandkind, ever?? This somehow made the hoax argument more credible.
What do you think?

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On one hand I think it very well could be a hoax. Just think about the level of technology then and the risks involved, especially (in my opinion) on take-off from the moon. And why NASA now needs billions of dollars and years of time to repeat the same thing! On the other hand probably nobody cared much about the risks then and if it was a hoax USSR would be the first to uncover it, but it never happened... Of course you could say that there was a secret agreement between the US and the USSR on not uncovering the hoaxes of each other! :lol: Seriously speaking, nobody knows where th truth lies, but if you google you will find a lot of good points supporting both sides...

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

I never even considered that it was a hoax until recently; ...

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If you had access to a moderately powerful laser -- as one might find at small factory or university -- you could easily prove independently that the landings were real. While on the moon, astronauts set up a series a retroflectors in order to take precise measurements. A retroflector is essentially a concave mirror. By bouncing a laser off the retroflector and measuring the response time you can gage the distance with incredible accuracy. The locations of these mirrors are not secrets. Given access to some basic equipment, you can prove they exist. If you think the landings were faked, then you must explain how those mirrors got up there and positioned correctly.

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Originally Posted by RavinDave

If you think the landings were faked, then you must explain how those mirrors got up there and positioned correctly.

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Aliens :lol:

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Originally Posted by RavinDave

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

I never even considered that it was a hoax until recently; ...

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If you had access to a moderately powerful laser -- as one might find at small factory or university -- you could easily prove independently that the landings were real. While on the moon, astronauts set up a series a retroflectors in order to take precise measurements. A retroflector is essentially a concave mirror. By bouncing a laser off the retroflector and measuring the response time you can gage the distance with incredible accuracy. The locations of these mirrors are not secrets. Given access to some basic equipment, you can prove they exist. If you think the landings were faked, then you must explain how those mirrors got up there and positioned correctly.

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Правда? Я об этом не знал. Во всяком случае, я верю тому, что они в действительности сьездили Луну. Люди способны на всевозможные поразительные технологические достоинства.

Вот доказательство вкратце:
http://www.thursdaysclassroom.com/15...fpositive.html

I never thought they were fake untill i learned about it in highschool. Watching the video of the flag flapping in the wind... and a whole bunch of other unbelievable crap kinda made me think twice. Plus how the radiation from the sun would burn anything at about 10,000,000,000 degrees on a rock like that with no atmosphere... But whatever. Maybe it happend...

And they could have just launched those mirrors there on rockets, much like they put rovers on mars, or, claim to have put humans on the moon with rockets =).

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

And they could have just launched those mirrors there on rockets, much like they put rovers on mars, or, claim to have put humans on the moon with rockets =).

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If you say that we just sent the retroflector arrays up via rocket, you can no longer fall back on "we lacked the technology to get to the moon." It's the same technology.

well we've sent stuff to mars, but not people... Its not the same.

Besidea, launching a peice of shiney fiberglass is a little less dangerous\ expensive than supporting human life, and getting it back up off the moon and back to earth.

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Originally Posted by basurero

Правда? Я об этом не знал. Во всяком случае, я верю тому, что они в действительности слетали на Луну. Люди способны на всевозможные поразительные технологические достижения.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

well we've sent stuff to mars, but not people... Its not the same.

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Quite true ... remotely maneuvering and configuring such an array back in 1969 would have been MUCH more difficult than manually doing it. (You've been spoiled by the rapid computer advances since that time.) The odds of nailing it with the accuracy we did with a blind drop (not once -- but several times) are pretty long, even by today's standards. On the other hand, once the actual mechanics of getting an object (any object) to the Moon is solved, the underlying physic of sending a manned capsule there and back are not as esoteric as you imagine. It's suprisingly mundane stuff.

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

What do you think?

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I think Russia and Iraq don't exist either, there are powerful forces out there to trick you into obedience and paying more taxes.

I think, this "conspiracy theory" is a nonsence. There is a lot of people in Russia (like Yuriy Mukhin), who think the Apollo expedition was a hoax -- but their arguments are entirely unconvincing.

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Originally Posted by RavinDave

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

And they could have just launched those mirrors there on rockets, much like they put rovers on mars, or, claim to have put humans on the moon with rockets =).

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If you say that we just sent the retroflector arrays up via rocket, you can no longer fall back on "we lacked the technology to get to the moon." It's the same technology.

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Not quite. To send a relatively small object to Moon is much easier than to send 3 men there and get them back. Personally I'm inclined to believe in American Moon program but I HAD some doubts about it after watching several TV shows.

Aside from that - you'd need a very powerful laser with very small dissipation characteristic to get a reflection from the surface of Moon (it's about 800000 km for a laser beam to go). Such laser is a very expensive equipment no mere human can afford.

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Personally I'm inclined to believe in American Moon program but I HAD some doubts about it after watching several TV shows.

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After watching TV shows you can start to doubt about (or believe) anything. That's why I don't watch TV shows.

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Originally Posted by pisces

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Originally Posted by Ramil

Personally I'm inclined to believe in American Moon program but I HAD some doubts about it after watching several TV shows.

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After watching TV shows you can start to doubt about (or believe) anything. That's why I don't watch TV shows.

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Neither do I but I've specially made some efforts to watch these. I was interested, that's all.

I think American's expedition to the Moon wasn't a fraud. Let's suppose it was a hoax then USSR spies would have definetely discovered and uncovered this. Since USSR kept silence at that modent, I reckon that Moon expedition was genuine.

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I think American's expedition to the Moon wasn't a fraud. Let's suppose it was a hoax then USSR spies would have definetely discovered and uncovered this. Since USSR kept silence at that modent, I reckon that Moon expedition was genuine.

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Im pretty sure Russia doesn't have all the answers...


Though she may have most :wink:

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

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I think American's expedition to the Moon wasn't a fraud. Let's suppose it was a hoax then USSR spies would have definetely discovered and uncovered this. Since USSR kept silence at that modent, I reckon that Moon expedition was genuine.

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Im pretty sure Russia doesn't have all the answers...


Though she may have most :wink:

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Bloody KGB knew EVERYTHING
http://ramil.kicks-ass.org/smileys/diablo.gif

:)

If the moon landings were a hoax, then the 29 astronauts who travelled to the moon during every one of those Apollo missions must be damn good at BS'ing and keeping secrets for the past 30+ years.

These are the same people who say that the US Gov't flew airplanes into the WTC and used explosives to collapse the buildings, and that a US Missile hit the Pentagon. Simply people whose lives are utterly uninteresting and they want to dream about grand conspiracies and uncovering the 'truth'. Besides, you don't need a laser to measure the evidence, take a telescope and look for yourself.

tdk

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Originally Posted by Moongazer

If the moon landings were a hoax, then the 29 astronauts who travelled to the moon during every one of those Apollo missions must be damn good at BS'ing and keeping secrets for the past 30+ years.

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Just look at that guy who hid watergate for the past 30+ years? Its not that hard is it?

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These are the same people who say that the US Gov't flew airplanes into the WTC and used explosives to collapse the buildings, and that a US Missile hit the Pentagon.

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No, these arn't the same people, Looks like you're the paraniod one.

I just don't always believe everything i see. I like the view from the fence just fine.

If I am not mistaken, Russia celebrates holidays such as "air fleet day" and a lot of armed forces days; not to mention "oil day- масленица"?
My point was simple...politicians, everywhere, seize every opportunity to take adavantage of every political opportunity, so why has not a single American politician not grabbed the "clear and obvious" opportunity for self-promotion to create and celebrate a "First Man on the Moon Day"?

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

Americans celebrate almost every conceivable event such as; Labor Day, Mother's Day, Father's Day, tax day, Halloween day, etc; why do we not formally celebrate accomplishment of undoubtedly the greatest technological achievement of mandkind, ever?? .
What do you think?

so why has not a single American politician not grabbed the "clear and obvious" opportunity for self-promotion to create and celebrate a "First Man on the Moon Day"?

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Because such a holiday would never generate the kind of commercial revenue as any of those mentioned (OK, ‘tax day’ would be the exception) . . . like say, Valentine’s Day. Ouch. Sorry romantics, but it’s true.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Just look at that guy who hid watergate for the past 30+ years? Its not that hard is it?

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Point taken. But just maybe – maybe, it wasn't that hard for William Mark Felt Sr., (aka, Deep Throat) to conceal his secret identity for 30+ years - until 2005. He was an elusive type who just had the knack, and he was brilliant at it.

It's quite a task, if not a major b*tch, to enforce a group of former astronauts (including ground support) who flew on Apollo missions (after Armstrong & Co) . . . to elaborately, consistently lie to friends and family - over a span of so many years. Actually, that’s more unrealistic than the Apollo missions and moon landings conspirators hold in suspicion and criticize.

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Originally Posted by Moongazer

If the moon landings were a hoax, then the 29 astronauts who travelled to the moon during every one of those Apollo missions must be damn good at BS'ing and keeping secrets for the past 30+ years.

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29? Try thousands of people who all worked on the project. Out of all these people don't you think at least one person would have blown the whistle and leaked it? It is amazing that they went to the moon, and I can hardly believe it myself, but then again so are a lot of things (eg the 747 which just flew over my house).

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Originally Posted by basurero

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Originally Posted by Moongazer

If the moon landings were a hoax, then the 29 astronauts who travelled to the moon during every one of those Apollo missions must be damn good at BS'ing and keeping secrets for the past 30+ years.

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29? Try thousands of people who all worked on the project. Out of all these people don't you think at least one person would have blown the whistle and leaked it?

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Very true, and I certainly don't exlude them. My friend's father was an engineer involved in the Apollo missions.

So what if the astronauts actually believed they were on the moon but it was just Arizona? :D

My girlfriend has the type of laser you speak of (she's a physicist) but I'm pretty sure she will not allow me to take it outside and point it at the sky.

Here is another approach. an experiment that those of you out there who are teachers might try, out of curiosity. If you should ask a typical USA high school class: "Who was the first person to climb Mount Everest? And, who was the first person to land on the moon?" Which question would be answered correctly more often? What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

Here is another approach. an experiment that those of you out there who are teachers might try, out of curiosity. If you should ask a typical USA high school class: "Who was the first person to climb Mount Everest?

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Sir Edmund Hillary, a New Zealand explorer/mountaineer who was the first person to reach the peak in 1953 along with his faithful guide Tenzing Norgay. So, would they know this? Doubtfully, not.

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

And, who was the first person to land on the moon?" Which question would be answered correctly more often? What do you think?

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Well, most of the class would typically answer 'Neil Armstrong' (along with crew), which is the truth involving the first moon landing, at least.

But ask a typical High School class this question . . . 'What was the first living creature launched into space?' 'Who was the first human launched into space, and who was the first human sent into orbit?'

You'll get a whole variety of answers on this one . . . and most responses are going to be pure entertainment :lol:

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

Here is another approach. an experiment that those of you out there who are teachers might try, out of curiosity. If you should ask a typical USA high school class: "Who was the first person to climb Mount Everest? And, who was the first person to land on the moon?" Which question would be answered correctly more often? What do you think?

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Я не понимаю, в чем это относится к теме теорий заговоров?

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Originally Posted by basurero

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Originally Posted by Siriusly

Here is another approach. an experiment that those of you out there who are teachers might try, out of curiosity. If you should ask a typical USA high school class: "Who was the first person to climb Mount Everest? And, who was the first person to land on the moon?" Which question would be answered correctly more often? What do you think?

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Я не понимаю, как это относится к теме теорий заговоров?

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A female was the first to enter space, no?

tdk

Major Yuri Alexeyevich Gagarin of the Soviet Union.

The first living creatures launched into space were two dogs, Белка and Стрелка.
The first human launched into space was Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin.
The first woman launched into space was Valentina Vladimirovna Tereshkova.
The first human who got out of the rocket in space was Aleksey Arhipovich Leonov.

They are all from the Soviet Union.

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Originally Posted by DDT

Major Yuri Alexeyevich Gagarin of the Soviet Union.

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Nope. Two female huskies (spelling)

"Just think about the level of technology then and the risks involved, especially (in my opinion) on take-off from the moon. And why NASA now needs billions of dollars and years of time to repeat the same thing!"

The Saturn V engines were some of the most brilliant pieces of technology ever created; then and now. The problem is after a few trips to the moon people became less and less interested in it, people including high ranking members of the U.S. Government. What happened to the Saturn Vs? They were put away or put on display and allowed to deteriorate in condition until they reached the condition they've been in for years: useless. Essentially all of the hard technology used in the Apollo missions has been lost due to negligence brought on by lack of interest.

Now, with the government renewing interest in space travel~ probably due to a threat to this countries superiority in the space industry by many countries, namely: China. Introducing what has become 'Orion'. The new effort by NASA to develop a system to bring humans back to the moon and eventually mars. Couple inflation and other economic issues along with the much farther reaching goals of this new project does it not seem trivial the billions of dollars and years of time? especially to someone familiar with the costs and years of research and development what went into and led to the Apollo projects? Yes it really does.

Also, I really don't see how anyone can question the reality of the apollo missions and therefor our landing on the moon... of course I've spoken to engineers who worked at NASA at and around that time as well as people who have spoken to even more than i have, and were even good friends with them... anyways, I suggest anyone who doubts it reasearch the actual development and story of both NASA and the Soviet space projects... because as someone posted earlier: the Soviet programs have almost all of the "firsts"~~ NASA was lucky with Apollo... it isn't like the USSR was far behind :lol:

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Originally Posted by Plastic-Saint

... it isn't like the USSR was far behind :lol:

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If they would have treated Королёв better, they might have been first. He pretty much single-handedly guided the program and was always fighting against short-sighted bureaucrats.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060814/ts_ ... e_tapes_dc