What is this religion? Do they practice human sacrifice or something like that? Joking aside, in reality there is religious persecution for antihuman religions like "aum-senrice" (sp?) etc.
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What is this religion? Do they practice human sacrifice or something like that? Joking aside, in reality there is religious persecution for antihuman religions like "aum-senrice" (sp?) etc.
I am referring to groups such as Moscow Baptists, Jehovahs witness, Pentecostals and the like. We will leave the human scarifice crowd (probably politicians anyway) stories for later. :D
Here is just one small report of what I mean.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/c ... 772870.stm
1. You're family are not the entire population of RussiaQuote:
Originally Posted by ZolotayaRibka
2. People take the piss out of Christian kids at school here in the UK.
3. They didn't lock up people for being relgious. Your grandfather obviously did something else.
4. I can imagine what religious Russian boys had to go through in the communist armies. :twisted:
Do some of you Russians here really think that we as Westerners can't have a good understanding of Russian history? Is there something genetic about you that makes you know it all from birth? Maybe people of each country are granted some magical power that no one who was born elsewhere can ever obtain?
Vending Machine, you make me feel hopeless in humanity’s ability or willingness to cast of ignorance and bigotry. I fantasize that people like you would finally get their poetic justice by having to live as an unprivileged person in an opressive society. I restrain myself though, because that it too horrible of a punishment to wish on anyone.
You can say what you want about the USSR, but it's all just empty words. You are never going to have to be held accountable for them. But I caution you, though. Arguments about history are not always pillow fights. When a society becomes complacent to the oppression of any peoples, it opens up the opportunity for genocide, war and dictatorship.
Think about that.
We were fed alot of propoganda here in the West. Even now regarding the Ukrainian elections we were too. But so were the Soviets and now the Russians.
That's why, during the recent Ukrainian elections I read both British and Russian press, and you see that both sides were as bad as eachother really.
Honestly, I do. It's not a magic, it's the background you don't have. That's all. As for "opressive society" I didn't notice I or my family were 'opressed'. (I don't count some very old events. I speak of Breznev era). And we weren't privileged persons. We lived in "коммуналка" as pisces did. We had no "блат". My parents had an average salary. No car, no dacha. But money is not what people live for. Human relations and moral environment are much more important things, I think. And those things were beter in the USSR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoduck
And what about the opinion of real young ukrainians????? I have a girl-friend who is from Livl and for her Poutine is a dictator and Kushma was corrupted to the core.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
we were not fed propaganda in the west. The events were reported as they happened! No photo was tricked for removing someone on it! We don't have phantoms in our closet.... Our system is imperfect, but far more perfect than the post-communist/post dictatorial system of the USSR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N
Yea that's why so many people were sent to the goulag? Jeez. Face it. It is no big deal. Just like when you get turn down by a girl. Get on with your life. Life goes on and on.
Breznew Era or not, you got to see the whole USSR era as a whole.
You story is pointless. I can take a counter example of a good book explaining the virtues of capitalism...Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Censorship sucks or does not suck? Common Answer!
I HATE STATE censorship........................................ .......................................... They can stamp a BLACK/RED/PINK square or cross, for all I care, it will increase my sales.... But by any means, the state should ideally NEVER prevent the publication of any material.
What society does not do any kind censorship? Ah yea that great USSR of VM!!!!!!!!!!!! vroooommm.
For crying out loud, them's frigging sects! The gov't wouldn't register them because it has a duty to protect its citizens. And in my book sects are criminal organizations. But I suppose that's persecution...Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Sorry, Mordan, but you can't really claim to be a particularly smart person if you misread my post like that. That dialogue pours scorn at all ye greate commie bashers and navel contemplators, it is not about pros and cons of censorhip. Dismissed.
And that, ladies and gents, is all you ever need to know about Mordan's opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan
BwahahahahahaahahahaahahahahQuote:
we were not fed propaganda in the west. The events were reported as they happened!
What you have laddie is a huge inferiority complex. Otherwise why would ya be here? You're not really into learning Russian, are you? I haven't seen a single post by you on that subject.Quote:
We don't have phantoms in our closet....
Bwahahahahaahaah. You know, you've just turned yourself into a laughing stock in front of millions of Russians.Quote:
Our system is imperfect, but far more perfect than the post-communist/post dictatorial system of the USSR.
Of course, ever coin has two sides....
(Next time you imagine you have a gf, check the spelling of the place she comes from)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan
Oh, she's already dumped you? You've only been away for how long? To make a few posts? Не сраслось...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan
I object. I've made numerous posts helping students learn the Russian language. Ye cannae drop such ugly innuendos.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
Objection noted :D
Geoduck, I genuinely pity you.Quote:
Vending Machine, you make me feel hopeless in humanity’s ability or willingness to cast of ignorance and bigotry.
That'd be your society? I wouldn't be surprised about its inherently oppressive nature. You can't really fantasize about any other type of society but your own one because, like someone on this board has said, you have no experience of other types of society. Unlike you, I've lived on both shores.Quote:
I fantasize that people like you would finally get their poetic justice by having to live as an unprivileged person in an opressive society.
Yes, I suppose for you they'd be pretty empty.Quote:
You can say what you want about the USSR, but it's all just empty words.
Stand in front of a mirror and say it again.Quote:
But I caution you, though. Arguments about history are not always pillow fights. When a society becomes complacent to the oppression of any peoples, it opens up the opportunity for genocide, war and dictatorship.
Summing up this discussion.
1. 2CREATIV asks if anyone of the Russians here feels proud to have been a Soviet.
2. The majority of us Russians here says that life in the USSR was OK/great/cool, many agree that it was definately better than in todays Russia.
3. All hell breaks loose with Mordan and Geoduck having an epileptic fit.
Mordan, Geoduck - I'm sorry, lads, but I don't think your opinion was called for in this thread. (see #1)
So do I. I totally agree with N.Quote:
Originally Posted by N
I disagree. It has nothing to do with background, it has to do with mindset and personality. It it is perfectly feasible in principle for a Westerner to understand the majority Russian belief that life in the USSR was better than life in Russia is today. It's just unlikely, given the majority mindset of Westerners.
Well now, and who is to say that Russian Orthodox is not a sect also?Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I would be willing to bet my last set of horse shoes, that even as I write, the Pope is plotting how to bring this rebellious sect of Orthodoxy back into the confines of his fold.
.......Oh my god! I think I have just united VM and JB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2CREATV
Which part of this is not true?
just...curious :wink:
L'viv is the the Ukrainian heartland though. Go to Donets'k and you'll hear a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan
It's what is shown and what isn't shown which is the point. We were repeatedly told the first election was fraudulent and that Russia was heavily involved in swinging it for Yanukovych. The fact that for the second election the US poured money into, was hardly mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordan
Yes, I'll agree, media bias is a big force in our world. Hearing differing stories, however, doesn't mean that one has to believe all sides of an issue equally. Sometimes one source's interpretation is just a better fit of the evidence than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoduck
Although, our media in the UK on TV does try and show the other side of the story.
I was watching a report about Latvia and it featured both sides of the story, how the Soviets liberated Latvia from the Nazis and industrialised the country, but also how they occupied it.
We the Russian people are to say that. We the Russian people, wyth one agreable consent do crye: the Russian Orthodox Church is not a sect. Because the Russian Orthodox Church does not sign contracts with the sick and the elderly to look after them in exchange for their property like the aforementioned sects do. It has been observed that once such contracts have been signed, the old dears, having been in perfect health prior to the signing, all of a sudden run down the curtain and join the bleeding choir invisible.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Anyway, the Orthodox Church really gets on my tits as much as most other churches do.
Splendid. At last we seem to agree that the majority* mindset of Russians is different from the majority* mindset of Westerners. You may also want to remember that what we do in Russia is our own business. We are not trying to force our way of life or values onto you and we would greatly appreciate it if you did the same thing. We respect your people's choices of gov'ts, values, etc. and we believe you when you say that they are OK ... for you. We do this out of politeness and general understanding that you Western nations should know better what suits your mindset, tradition, etc. Do I make myself clear?Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
P.S. Of course, one can always find many people who disagree with the view of the majority (in fact, yours truly is one such person).
Yes this is what I don't like about America. It's like so happy with it's precious democracey that showing it off to the rest of the world isn't enough, and they have to impose it on other nations. And Russia is democratic anyway, maybe not as much as other countries but still.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Oh please, TATY, don't bash America. Why do you people like to bash them so much? Is it some sort of inferiority complex you have? Must you always say bad things about them? You know, even I feel sick sometimes. You can't be so mean to them. It's just not fair to the average american. Mostly they act in good faith, so I've witnessed. Whatever you say, evil dictatorships must go, no matter what. People do not choose dictatorships, they are forced onto them. When a country exports democracy to another country (and that's what it is, for democracy is a product and therefore it can be exported), it acts like a surgeon who, although he actually hurts the patient with his scalpel during the operation, rids him of a tumour and saves his life. Zat not so, Mordan?
It IS unlikely, because to even own an opinion separate or different from the norm is met with great punishments and opposition. Free speech is a trap for the masochist. There was a new dog in town. It was smarter than us. It was brilliant, beautiful, enculturated. And personally, I thought it was quite friendly, private, and in individual existance by it's own rules--ferking bitchen stuff man--it was nice to see some intelligence around here. But, damn, for all this truth the most bizarre thing was happening as I watched on as a child in American 80's. My own country was gossiping like a bit*ch and brewing up rumors to put everyone in panic-like a girl who wants her girlfriends guy and will tell her that he is sleeping around so she will dump him. Propaganda. Is this the word? And even if Russia (or whatever she/he was called back then) was trying to dominate the world by first being superior in "everything"-would that have been so bad? I mean shit. YOU taught US about space.Quote:
Originally Posted by scotcher
And they get an infection and die. Or the tumour comes back.Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
I'm sad to see the soviet gone. I do not want another america floating about. I think it's tedious stuff really. I do not want to go over there to visit and see mcdonalds or denny's or worse the english language written all over everything. And when I hear the word democracy... that's all I think about. But I know it won't happen. I really do. Russians will be pissed enough at the mere thought to never let that happen--I do hope.
You're too pessimistic, TATY. One can't live with this kind of attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
Shouldn't a surgeon get a written consent from the patient before starting the operation?Quote:
Originally Posted by VendingMachine
Not when the doctor has decided that the patient in insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by pisces
Is it a surgeon's work to determine the mental state of the patient?Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
No. A medical board run by the state does that.
In urgent cases it is not required.Quote:
Shouldn't a surgeon get a written consent from the patient before starting the operation?