If anyone wants to find out how much they'd make working in London, check here:
Jobsite.co.uk or jobserve.com. Particularly for people who work in IT.
A Russian person with specialised IT skills could easily get a job in the UK.
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If anyone wants to find out how much they'd make working in London, check here:
Jobsite.co.uk or jobserve.com. Particularly for people who work in IT.
A Russian person with specialised IT skills could easily get a job in the UK.
Out of a curiosity, how much a .NET (C#, VB.Net) developer is paid in UK?
I am not too sure about the others, but I recruited a .net developer about a year and a half ago. He accepted an offer of £40,000 per year and was reasonably experienced. In London it's about 30,000-45,000 per year, depending on which type of company and how good they are at "selling themselves" in the job interview. (UK salaries are always per year, not month). VB is a less valued skill and I am not sure about C#.
The tax on a salary like that would be about 28%.
If any IT person from Russia wanted to try working in London for a while, it's apparently relatively easy to get a UK working visa in the "highly skilled worker" scheme. I think an IT degree is all that's needed. Russian developers have a very good reputation, so it's not hard to get a job here if you know how to code..
I can't work out how much I would make in Moscow, and it's very hypothetical since I couldn't apply for a regular job since I can't speak Russian to the required level.. It would have to be a job geared at an English speaking foreigner.
It amounts to £2,400 a month (tax excluded). Not very much, by the way, considering the higher apartment costs and generally UK's being more expensive for living...
The only problem with many Russian developers (of highest class, by the way) I know is that they don't have any degree in IT :D Most of them are self-educated (just like myself, by the way, having a degree in Economics/Finance but no degree in IT but still being a rather good programmer).
Yup, I didn't want to say anything but it's true that it's not ideal.
The problem is that transport and housing is so expensive that all your money goes towards that. In fact, that's what I made as a junior project manager when I split up with my fiancee and found myself "alone" in London. Luckily that's history.
But one should always keep a perspective! There are PLENTY of people who live on 20,000 per year; all the people who work in the thousands of coffeeshops and clothes shops... People come to London from all across Europe to live like that..
AlexB, I have looked around for an answer to your question about WHY we write the $ first and not after and I just cannot seem to locate anything! I have learned all about the myths of how the $ came to be about, but nothing on WHYQuote:
Originally Posted by alexB
If someone else wants to take on this challenge, please do and let us know the reason!Quote:
In the United States, the dollar symbol precedes the number, unlike almost all other units. Five dollars is written and printed as $5, whereas five cents is written as 5¢.
However, I will tell you it is not always a substitute. You will often see something like this:
orQuote:
Google Takes Up $5 Million Dollars Of Ad Space A DAY To Promote Nexus One
We write the $ sign and still write the word dollar, yet, when we read it or say it aloud, we only read the written word "dollar." :wacko:Quote:
‘Now for the second time James Cameron has made a movie that has brought in over $1 billion dollars!
I never really thought about WHY we do this. Maybe it is to show that it is in US currency and not any other currency? Donno?
Well lots of currencies do the same thing....
Not sure if the dollar started it, or what.
Apparently there is even one for the Ruble now, a P with a horizontal bar across the trunk.
What's an IT specialist? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Yeah, this is silly - it wouldn't be a problem for a Polish person for example, because he wouldn't need a visa because they are in the EU... or even a Russian from the Baltic states. But someone from Russia proper would need a visa, plus Serbs, Croats and a few more Europeans. Silly. There needs to be a union between Russia and the EU as soon as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
IT stands for Information Technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlaz
So its the immigration authorities who require a proper degree, not the potential employers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Yeah, that's kind of obvious. The meaning of "IT specialist" isn't though :3Quote:
IT stands for Information Technology.
Someone with a university degree in IT, or who had worked for a long time in IT.
As opposed to someone who just has computing as a hobby.
Oh, you mean 'who is worthy to be called a specialist in this field?'Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlaz
IT sphere itself is not so 'monolithic' as it's been before (some 10-15 years ago). Now there are networking specialists, database administrators, developers, web-developers, etc.
Like in every profession there are professionals and amateurs who think they are professionals. :D And it's really hard to understand at first glance one from another. I used to work as a project manager and had 6 programmers 'under my command'. Even though they were all skilled and quite proficient with coding itself they lacked theoretical knowledge, algorithms, optimisation, etc. And there was only one whom I would gladly and promptly exchanged for a hundred of boys like the rest of them. They were creating stupid programming interfaces, they ignored guidelines, they simply didn't understand the specifications, etc. It was hell. I paid virtually with my blood to meet the deadline. But each one thought he was a guru :-D.
I don't work in IT now but I have to work with the IT department of our company. There are only 3 system administrators that maintain a VPN over 21 cities - they ARE professionals indeed, but when my 20 years old neighbor claims he's a system administrator too I can only laugh.
Yeah, more or less. Because the person would have to apply for the "highly skilled worker" visa scheme and that requires a degree and they probably would check that properly from the British embassy in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
But when that formality is sorted, it doesn't matter. Degrees are not THAT important in IT. As you probably know (just saw your other post).
Plus.... it would not occur to anyone in the UK to actually attempt to check that someone really had a degree from a Russian university. If he could prove that he knew what he was talking about in a job interview, that would be enough. So it's down to his conscience what he puts as his qualification.
LtColumbo was saying that the same thing was true in Russia, his English qualification which he may or may not actually posess... had never been checked by his Russian employers. In light of the fact that he teaches English I think that is fine.. What matters is whether he can teach English, not whether he has a certain degree or not.
That's exactly what I mean. And the amount of money one would make largely depends on th exact field he is working in.Quote:
IT sphere itself is not so 'monolithic' as it's been before (some 10-15 years ago). Now there are networking specialists, database administrators, developers, web-developers, etc.
That is the same in any specialized field though....if you don't understand the END USER or don't have the "vision" to see what it is you are actually creating. It is not just code. It is code which ends up being "something." Also, I am not certain this "younger" generation takes the same pride in their work as "us" older folks... but that might be a different thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
Very interesting so far! One more question if you guys don't mind: how about taxes? Here in Belgium we give about 1/3 (more or less, the more you earn, the more you have to give) of what we earn to the state in the form of taxes. So how about in Russia?
It's a flat rate of 13%. It's the lowest personal income tax in Europe I think. Even more, many people get their salary in cash unofficially and pay little or no taxes whatsoever.
It's the employer who pays the rest. If you employ someone then YOU should pay a social tax for him (it's 26% of his salary).
Here's how it goes:
Your 'official' salary is 20,000 roubles, you pay 20,000 * 0.13 = 2,600, but your employer has to pay a so called 'social tax' of 5,200 (26%). That's why many employers try to keep the official salary fund at minimum. They will pay you 20,000 officially and 50,000 in cash. (If that was official you would have to pay additionally 6,500 and your employer - 13,000).
And as an employee I don't need to actually pay something. My income tax is deduced from my salary, so in this example I will get only 17,400 (it's called 'white salary') and my income tax will be paid along with social tax by my employer. Then your employer pays so called 'black salary' to you and nobody pays anything from it.
This scheme was working fine but if your 'official' income is low it's hard to get a loan so many people try to find an employer who will pay 'in white'.
In result, the salaries in Russia are taxated at 39% (13% -from an employee, 26% - from his employer). I guess it is the median international level. Some words on the structure: the united social tax has been split into three payments since January, 1, 2010: 20% - payment to the goverment pension fund, social security- 2,9%, state medical insurance - 3,1%. Previously the united tax covered the same articles, but the federal authorities distributed the collected money.
A common person needn't do tax payments himself unless he's self-employed, has sold out a property during a fiscal year, or simply has several jobs (including temporary contracts). If he has only a permanent one, the company pays everything for him, including alimonies (if applicable).
An interesting article about living and expenses in the US (in Russian language)
http://www.gazeta.ru/money/2010/02/03_e_3319412.shtml
I think the level seems normal by European standards, but it's probably smarter to force companies to automatically take ALL the money from the paycheck instead of leaving some of it to the individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
The excessive cheating ("black salary") among REGULAR people is not normal... Only shady people, or small businesses would try that in most of Europe. Most of Northern Europe, at least, is so well organised that the cheater would get caught pretty soon.
In the UK, some specialised jobs (mine for example) can be done on a "contractor" basis which leaves some interesting options for tax avoidance and leaves you with much more cash... But these jobs are harder to find, less secure and require a fair bit of involvement to manage the whole thing, so I am not doing it right now. I probably ought to though....
Also, in the UK you are responsible yourself for paying your local ("council") tax for local services in the area where you live. A lot of people don't do this, get found out, get in serious trouble and ruin their credit rating for years.
Seems to me the Russian government needs to stop/reduce this institutionalised cheating in order to get the right level of funding for public services in! It's surprising they haven't already put a stop to it, what's stopping them?
From an historical perspective: Is it correct that taxes as such where not used during the Soviet era?
Since Russian taxes aren't excessively high it seems like a shame that people and companies in Russia cheat in the way that Ramil outlines -- particularly when there is such a huge need in many areas.
(But on the other hand, if people suspect that their tax money may be wasted on corruption and useless schemes, then I suppose it's understandable that they hold back... )
Btw, what do you think about Mikhail Khordorkovsky who is frequently brought up as a sort of "martyr" in the UK press for having been falsely (?) imprisoned for tax crimes... I assume he is probably nor a very honest or decent person, but is it right that he should remain in prison for such a long time...? Hasn't he served his sentence by now?
26% ** 13% ~= 36% is not _excessively_ though enough high. Also, local (municipal, city-level taxes) are almos non-existend and don't affect thequality of local services - the whole idea that taxes are used to fund public services is somewhat alien.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
We have a job market here. No way a business can find a good worker without paying him at the market level. This 'mixed' scheme is common too. In this way the market limits an employee from the other hand.Quote:
I think the level seems normal by European standards, but it's probably smarter to force companies to automatically take ALL the money from the paycheck instead of leaving some of it to the individual.
You mean countries where serious crisises have been absent for at least two centuries. We had an anarchy 20 years back, and 70 years before that - a system based on a lie which in its turn required cheating to survive - go figure.Quote:
Most of Northern Europe, at least, is so well organised that the cheater would get caught pretty soon.
If we delivered justice to anyone who had deserved it, there would be a genocide. Khodorkovsky was unlucky enough to get his. Just because he had political ambitions.Quote:
Btw, what do you think about Mikhail Khordorkovsky who is frequently brought up as a sort of "martyr" in the UK press for having been falsely (?) imprisoned for tax crimes... I assume he is probably nor a very honest or decent person, but is it right that he should remain in prison for such a long time...?
Thanks, MasterAdmin, nice article. There are a few errors but overall very informative. (For example, bedrooms do not usually have their own bathroom, although in the more expensive houses the master bedroom does (it is also usually larger than the others too).
Можно кто-нибудь расскажет о системе общественной страховки в России? У нас в США такая система называется Social Security. Количество денег, которое будешь получать в отставке (по крайней мере в возрасте 62 года) зависит от количества денег, которое ты вложил на протяжении своей рабочей жизни (рассчитывают только на основе тех 35-и лет когда ты получал самые большие зарплаты). Так, если работодатель не платил бы целую зарплату, то в отставке получаешь меньше. Поэтому мы не склонны принимать «черные» зарплаты.
http://www.401k.ru/pensionnaja-sistema-v-rossii/
У нас все это не имеет смысла, все равно обманут. На пенсии будешь получать жалкие гроши, независимо от того сколько лет работал и сколько зарабатывал. Наше государство - вор на воре. Оно всегда издевалось над народом и будет издеваться. Это наш крест.Quote:
Так, если работодатель не платил бы целую зарплату, то в отставке получаешь меньше. Поэтому мы не склонны принимать «черные» зарплаты.
It should work in theory, but there was a reform not so long ago and there are really nobody who'd lived and retired with this system.
People don't believe in anything that comes from the government so everyone of my age (30+) is convinced that the state won't help you should anything happen. Everyone thinks that he's on his own.
Моя родственница получает пенсию около 8000руб. + как "Ветеран труда" платит 50% за коммуналку. Это не идет ни в какое сравнение с тем, что было в 90-е, когда пенсионерам пенсии на еду не хватало, да еще задерживали выплаты на несколько месяцев.Quote:
Originally Posted by Selexin
The Russian government deserves three things only: mistrust, mistrust and mistrust. Therefore, I'd better collect more cash and take up my personal (and my family's) welfare rather than hoping on the government.
I'm not going to buy their social services.
They won't ask you. :D That's why we have 'black salaries' here in Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ленивец
Well, yes, I don't pretend I have complete freedom in this area.
Well, this topic is getting closer to my heart as I am getting ready to retire, maybe this year, maybe next. At any rate, I will receive a pension and the miserly groshi from Social Security, which I figure at $1000 a month or probably less because of complicated laws. So my wife will have her SS (she'll be eligible in 4 years). Together we will have maybe about $40-50K after taxes and we will have to deal with it. I know it sounds like a lot to y'all, but over here it isn't.
Do you have a plan? Some Soviet emigrant told me that life expenses in US Midwest are quite cheap, while the people are of good character.
But how about a popular belief here that only western retired folks lead a happy life traveling around the globe, indulging themselves in every way imaginable, thanks to the system, making them work hard while they are young and active but providing them amply in their autumn years?Quote:
Originally Posted by chaika
what's the usual ratio of white to black salary? I mean if you get X no. rubles/mo. what % is white?
I don't think there's a specific ratio. The larger the whole salary, the smaller its official part.
~ 40%/60% white/blackQuote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Естественно, такое возможно только в коммерческих/частных организациях. Все государственные, бюджетные организации выплачивают работникам 100% в белую.
In my case it's been 5%/95% up until recently. Now it's 50/50.
I still don't understand how this black/white salary thing actually works. :wacko:
I mean, the companies have to use financial auditors, don't they?
This is a HUGE scam and you are saying that all companies do it... Shocking corruption! :shock: (What about State employers, like schools and hospitals, or foreign companies?)
EVERYONE has got to be in on this scam for it to work; the whole company finance department, the board of directors and the external auditors who are supposed to look for exactly this kind of thing!
Are all these people bribed, or completely corrupt, or what?
And do you have to negotiate about how much of your salary is white vs black?
Yes, but if you work in retail you've got HUGE amounts of cash. Cash registers can be easily reprogrammed and fiscal memory be reset. Inspecting authorities won't find anything and even if they find - well, they will receive some cash too :D Auditors can be bought too. Everybody takes bribes here, starting from a doorman and ending with a president.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Everybody who CAN take a bribe takes it.Quote:
This is a HUGE scam and you are saying that all companies do it... Shocking corruption! :shock: (What about State employers, like schools and hospitals, or foreign companies?)
Yes, they are :) Finance department usually keeps two set of accounts - an 'official one' (for auditors and inspections) and a 'black one' - for shareholders (they are aware of this too, of course, moreover - they encourage it. The general motto says - there must be no profit (officially). The less we pay taxes the better. It's a game - tax authorities try to catch and tax payers evade. Someone gets unlucky from time to time, but this don't stop the game, it only brings a new level of sophistication to it.Quote:
EVERYONE has got to be in on this scam for it to work; the whole company finance department, the board of directors
External audit is just a formality. They come, they browse through the official accounts and they leave.Quote:
and the external auditors who are supposed to look for exactly this kind of thing!
Well, I don't know. Personally I think that the corruption starts in highest echelones of government. There are huge amounts of scandals when budgetary funds get stolen. If the government steals from the budget then why should people pay taxes?Quote:
Are all these people bribed, or completely corrupt, or what?
Usually yes, this question is negotiated at the interview. There are companies that work 'completely white', but the majority still use 'black' or 'grey' schemes.Quote:
And do you have to negotiated about how much of your salary is white vs black?
Employed individuals don't pay taxes (unless they are self-employed) I mean physically - they get their money from their employer with tax deduced already.Quote:
19% is actually REALLY low! If the state wants to stop this they have to start demanding that ALL taxes are paid in automatically, and really crack down on it.
And the most funny thing - the government may behave as if they really want to stamp out the corruption but in reality - they do not care. Moreover - the most corrupt ones are those in Duma and the Kremlin.